sutton-in-craven Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Hi, I was wondering whether it is possible to clean up brass plaques on war memorials that have succumb to verdigris over the years? The WW1 plaque in question is from the Sutton-in-Craven war memorial. Interestingly enough, the other 2 named plaques on the same memorial are not affected by this corrosion. Any ideas would be very much appreciated, regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Hi Andrew For what it's worth my advice would be either to leave it well alone - as sometimes the 'patina' is a desired effect (as with medals/death plaques etc) - or contact the responsible local authority, especially to deal with the graffiti. I think a private individual going about his own clean-up could be viewed by some as criminal damage. Cheers Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Seymour Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Hi Andrew, You might find this helpsheet on brass from War Memorials Trust (WMT) of interest: http://www.warmemorials.org/uploads/publications/255.pdf Graham raised the question of ownership and the following helpsheet might be of interest in this regard: http://www.warmemorials.org/uploads/publications/120.pdf If you can establish ownership and secure the owner's consent you, or they, may wish to apply to WMT for both advice and a grant. The key point to remember in seeking a WMT grant is not to start any work on the memorial until WMT has agreed a programme of work. Hope this helps. With best wishes, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 verdigris is a sort of blueish green so is this something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillgorilla Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Looks like paint to me, or tippex. Is there also black paint on the bottom. The fact that the other two plaques are not affected may point to the work of man, rather than nature. The white stuff looks like it has drippled down. Meaning to visit this memorial sometime, as my Sister in law lives nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillgorilla Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Looking at it again, has someone tried to polish the plaque? One side looks shiner than the other. Also the residue is alll coming down from that top border. Alternatively, has the plaque been recently vandalised, and is this soem residue of graffiti removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillgorilla Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Looking at it again, has someone tried to polish the plaque? One side looks shiner than the other. Also the residue is alll coming down from that top border. Alternatively, has the plaque been recently vandalised, and is this soem residue of graffiti removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 The white stuff looks like it has drippled down. Meaning to visit this memorial sometime, as my Sister in law lives nearby. Especially since it runs round closed letters like the Os - I'd go for dribbled or dripped. Rule 1 of cleaning things up - find out what it is you are trying to clean off first. Some forms of metal polish will leave a residue like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Foster Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Here's a better image taken about 5 yrs ago before some clown added graffiti to it. As you can see the staining was visible then . Looking at it I would suggest as Centurion as mentioned that it maybe something else other than verdigris . My guess is that its come from the actual stone it self or from the mortar. I cant remember if the Memorial is made from limestone but it looks like lime scale . EDIT 22:42pm . I think the plaque is bronze rather than brass Andrew,I would go with Davids suggestion of contacting the War Memorials Trust and see what help they can give you. I hope you're keeping well ? Best Wishes Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 It does look as if the white stuff has been building up for some time (its obviously got worse over the last 5 years). I'd agree that it could be lime leaching out of the stone (just like a stalactite). In which case cleaning might not be a long term solution as it'll just come back again. There are ways of sealing limestone to stop this happening but my ex National Trust contact says this has to be done by specialists and isn't cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 29 September , 2011 Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Andrew A monumental mason will be able to answer your question, including giving advice on how to remove the stains. Perhaps a letter to the local newspaper would help given the proximity of November. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutton-in-craven Posted 29 September , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 September , 2011 Hi everyone and thanks very much for your thoughts on this. I've just checked the UK National Inventory of War Memorials and the Sutton-in-Craven memorial (according to this website) is constructed of Sandstone, with the plaques being made from Bronze (you were spot on Chris) My pervious thinking on the matter was to firstly get some ideas (from here on GWF) on how the plaque might be restored to its original condition; and then contact the village Parish Council to see if funding could be requested for the restoration. But prior to even this happening I think it would be only appropriate for me to ask the residents of Sutton what they're thoughts are on the matter via the village website forum. There may be some objection to my idea of cleaning up the corrosion/graffiti or whatever it is. To me it looks unsightly and is starting to obscure some of the detail on the naming. BUT I'm sure others will have differing points of view! I'll also keep in mind contacting the War memorials Trust if I get the thumbs up from other Sutton residents to have this plaque cleaned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 30 September , 2011 Share Posted 30 September , 2011 Could the white marks be bird droppings - they can discolour and damage many metals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 30 September , 2011 Share Posted 30 September , 2011 Having found some works on bronze 'diseases' it would seem that the panel is suffering from Core Migration. This the result of faulty manufacture. Bronze is cast in a mould with a core of gypsum or plaster of paris. Sometimes some of this is trapped in the bronze and over time (decades or even centuries) it migrates to the surface causing the sort of problem shown in the photographs. There is no cure. The material I have perused is in any case very clear about the dangers of cleaning bronze unless you are a real expert. Bronze is subject to a whole range of corrosion problems many caused by airborne pollutants which are becoming increasingly common and a good even patina (either natural or factory applied) protects against these. Removing this exposes the bronze. Well meaning attempts at renovation by non experts can cause more long term damage than they fix - in other words leave well alone and notify the relevant authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted 30 September , 2011 Share Posted 30 September , 2011 <BR>Having found some works on bronze 'diseases' it would seem that the panel is suffering from Core Migration. This the result of faulty manufacture. Bronze is cast in a mould with a core of gypsum or plaster of paris. Sometimes some of this is trapped in the bronze and over time (decades or even centuries) it migrates to the surface causing the sort of problem shown in the photographs. There is no cure.<BR><BR><BR>Why would the casting of a flat panel require a core of investment compound to be used? Cores are employed in the casting of bulky 3D objects, to either leave a central void (e.g. a valve) or minimise the amount of casting metal used and keep costs down. Flat castings don't require the use of cores.<BR><BR>It is most likely that the staining is finely precipitated calcium carbonate/calcium hydroxide that has leached out of the supporting masonry from above. It has all the appearance of having collected on the ledge formed by the upper edge of the panel and then dripping down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 30 September , 2011 Share Posted 30 September , 2011 <BR><BR>Why would the casting of a flat panel require a core of investment compound to be used? Cores are employed in the casting of bulky 3D objects, to either leave a central void (e.g. a valve) or minimise the amount of casting metal used and keep costs down. Flat castings don't require the use of cores.<BR><BR>It is most likely that the staining is finely precipitated calcium carbonate/calcium hydroxide that has leached out of the supporting masonry from above. It has all the appearance of having collected on the ledge formed by the upper edge of the panel and then dripping down. Sorry you're dead wrong. A cast iron mould has a gypsum core that holds the impression of the item to be cast - all those letters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Seymour Posted 30 September , 2011 Share Posted 30 September , 2011 If the memorial panels are bronze, rather than brass as mentioned earlier, the War Memorials Trust helpsheet on bronze may be of interest: http://www.warmemorials.org/uploads/publications/124.pdf David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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