British Cloth Insignia

[Guest Chip Minx]

Pictured below are two unrelated British insignia that I have questions about. First, can anyone help me identify the green insignia on the drab wool backing? I have come close to finding it in a period German compilation of observed insignia, but there were so many variations and so little reference exists, that I have no luck making an unqualified identification.

Secondly, are there any good rules of thumb for determining whether a piece of insignia is from the WWI era or later? Case in point is this Grenadier Guards shoulder arc. The reverse has no cloth backing, as many of my other WWI era pieces do. Though the letters are hand sewn, the backing, if you can call it that, appears to have been a thin application of glue, which has now cracked with age. I think it was a common practice for embroidered insignia to be stabilized on the back with some sort of coating like this. For instance, nearly all German embroidered navy ratings from the WWI period have paste or glue on the back. It is not scrapbook paste.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

Chip

[Grovetown]

Dear Chip

Snap! I have a pair of WWI GG cloth shoulder titles too. There is a dead simple way to differentiate between WWI and WWII guards shoulder titles: the WWII ones have rounded/ curved ends.

[Guest Chip Minx]

Thanks for the reply. What exactly do you mean by rounded/curved ends? Could you be a bit more specific? Do you mean that the very ends are not square-cut or that the arc itself is more curved and less flat?

Thanks again,

Chip

[Grovetown]

That the ends are rounded, rather than square cut.

I don't think the overall arc is significant; as this could vary depending on (and assuming more than one) manufacturer.

Yours differ from mine in arc and in having a thicker font.

Mine are absolutely right. So are yours.

I can't tell you off the top of my head what your second patch is - and/ or which war.

Rgds,

[Raster Scanning]

I think the bottom one is 2nd Manchesters. It could be B Coy (Green) or D Coy (Blue) not sure which as the colours have faded.

I am willing for Andrew to prove me wrong

Cheers

[AndrewThornton]

I think the bottom one is 2nd Manchesters. It could be B Coy (Green) or D Coy (Blue) not sure which as the colours have faded.

I am willing for Andrew to prove me wrong

Cheers

Raster - I'm sorry!

Although I am not sure about to which unit the second set of insignia belonged to (perhaps Mike H can help?), it is not 2nd Manchesters. The configuration of a diamond with bars underneath would be correct, but the diamond worn by the Manchesters was red (as were the other patches worn by the infantry in 32nd Division, which the Germans apparently called "The Red Division" on account of this) and the size of the diamond was much bigger.

I will have a look to see if there may be any pointers in the reference books I have.

[Guest Chip Minx]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts regarding these patches. The bottom patch's insignia are green (though sort of a misty green) and are not faded in my opinion. Material and construction seem to be of the type used in the First World War.

Chip