Paul Byrne Posted 16 August , 2006 Share Posted 16 August , 2006 That's as many Immortals of Festubert as I can find. I think we confirmed at least two F company men. Anyone think we should let the SG RHQ know what I've found out? Please don't ask me to do this for every Guards action. There is further info and another map on Chris' LLTsite. http://www.1914-1918.net/BATTLES/bat11b_fe...t11b_actual.htm The orchard shown on your map may well be the site where the remains of the 'Immortal Eighty' were found. Their was some confusion about the exact location in the 1920's when the 'Scots Guards in the Great War' (Ewart, Lowther and Petrie) was published. The site of the actual orchard concerned (actually two in the immediate area ) was further complicated by the report submitted by Captain Fitzwygram. His report suggested that the regimental history may have selected the wrong one!!!!!!! Michael Gavaghan in his excellent pocket guide details his walk around the area and claims to have located the orchard involved. Sorry to 'queer the pitch' further. Best, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 16 August , 2006 Share Posted 16 August , 2006 Owen, I have recieved back the e-mail from the Guards museum, see below... Andy Thanks for your email. Unfortunately the museum does not hold the information you seek. I strongly suggest that you contact the Regimental Headquarters of the Scots Guards who still maintain their service records and regimental diaries. They can be contacted in writing at: The Archivist RHQ - Scots Guards Wellington Barracks Birdcage Walk London SW1E 6HQ They should be able to assist you Kind regards Andrew Wallis Curator I think as you have done much, if not all the leg work I think it only fair to hand over the reigns to you to carry on. I feel its important to see if we can id the men. regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 16 August , 2006 Share Posted 16 August , 2006 Thanks Arm, Does this mean I have to copy and paste all these names into an email to the Guards Museum...............nah I think I'll email them the link to here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 16 August , 2006 Share Posted 16 August , 2006 Look foward to hearing some good news. regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 16 August , 2006 Share Posted 16 August , 2006 I've emailed the Guards Museum. Will give sitrep in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 16 August , 2006 Share Posted 16 August , 2006 Owen I have already done that, it is them who e-mailed me back to say contact the Scots Gds barracks etc.. read above!! Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 16 August , 2006 Share Posted 16 August , 2006 Sorry Arm, I got the wrong end of the stick.Doh! I was emailing to tell them I'd found them out and did they want the information. I can't believe we haven't a Scots Guards interested Member after all I'm the Grenadier minded one and Coldstreamer too. If the Scots Guards War Diaries are as good as the 4GG one then that info should be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_J Posted 16 August , 2006 Share Posted 16 August , 2006 Owen, Thanks for taking the time to post all that information on these men - I certainly appreciated it. Let's hope something more is forthcoming on this episode. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 17 August , 2006 Share Posted 17 August , 2006 If I could contribute a little bit(not a lot) to this thread. The 1st RWF were in this action ,being on the right of the 2nd Scots Guard.(CSM Barter getting a VC) Dudley Wards Regimental Recordsof the RWF describes their part in it. I quote the following in relation to this topic " The rush across No Man's Land to that maze of defences resulted in much confusion. Captain Coles, with men from A and B Companies joined a company of the Scots Guards, which was probably F Company. Their adventures are not known, beyond the fact that Captain Coles was mortally wounded. The Scots Guards Company was annihilated" So there we are, a mention of F Company..and that qualified by a 'probably' The book is not entirely clear on whether the A and B RWF men were lost with the Scots Guards but, I suppose, it's quite possible. Said my conribution was little <laugh> Having said that I initially though that locating the graves of Capt Coles and the A and B Co, 1st RWF ( i.e row,plot etc) would have led them to being intermingled with Scots Guards but I've now spotted that Le Touret is a memorial, not a cemetery. <sad> Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 17 August , 2006 Share Posted 17 August , 2006 I had previously been on the LLT to see what part 1st RWF took in this battle and approached it via 1st RWF... 7th Division..their battles etc where I came to 'the Battle of Aubers,and the Battle of Festubert' which is one big link. By following the link the information stops at the end of the Battle of Aubers. I had assumed that Chris had not yet updated it with the battle of Festubert. Now, I see that by going via Battles it brings up the battle of Festubert information as linked to above by Owen. Chris if you read this, is this a glitch in the links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurent Posted 24 August , 2006 Share Posted 24 August , 2006 Crunchy, Stand at the crossroads on the Estaires to La Bassee road known as Port Arthur with Estaires at your back. The road to Neuve Chapelle is on your left i.e. 9o'clock, the road continues on to La Bassee at 12 o'clock, the Indian Memorial is to your right at 1 o'clock with the memorial to Lt Val Braithwaite immediately outside it on the road to your right i.e. 3 o'clock (i.e. the one running away from NChapelle). That road, possibly showing directions to Bethune, is the Rue de Bois. Go along it and now it gets tricky (1995 is a long time ago). After half a mle or more (not sure of distances now ) look on your right for a house with a figure of Marechal Foch on horseback. Soon after this, on your left, their is an entrance to a farm. It looks as though its a private road, its not. Drive down it and having left the farm area you come to a really large area of land. Drive right down it to the junction and you have driven through the British rear area on 15/16 May, 1915. The junction you reach is the point on the Grenadier Guards map shown in the posting on this forum where the road meets the Rue de Caillaux. Just an idea if you let me have your home address I'll send you some stuff. Best, Paul Byrne. hi, i'm Laurent. I know very well this place. If you come in september, we could meet all together and i will show Festubert Battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Byrne Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 hi, i'm Laurent. I know very well this place. If you come in september, we could meet all together and i will show Festubert Battlefield. Hello Laurent, I am hoping to visit the area again possibly in the March, 2007. I would love the opportunity of walking the Festubert battlefied with you. Best, Paul Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Dear All I have followed this thread with interest. Being new, and, doubtless, green behind the ears, I am mystified on one point. If all these SGs were found, surrounded by dead Germans, why are they commemmorated at Le Touret, and don't have graves? Did no British troops, on finding them, try to bury them? Or did they do so, and the graves subsequently get lost? Or just the grave markers? Am I exposing my ignorance? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Bruce the battle was in 1915 so lots more fighting and shelling over that ground. Ample time for the bodies to be lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 Owen, you heard anything from the Scots Guards yet? regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 31 August , 2006 Share Posted 31 August , 2006 No not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurent Posted 11 October , 2006 Share Posted 11 October , 2006 Hi, about The Orchard there is a little confusion ! i found some information about first Orchard near point P4 (see the map). In Scots Guards War diary they talk about "orchard" at point P4 where scots guards star to fight ! ...not "Orchard" call in futur Canadian Orchard...this is not the same. I found a photo about Scots Guard near Point P4 "Orchard" target of 2nd Batt scots guards may 16th 1915. Laurent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin W Taylor Posted 21 July , 2009 Share Posted 21 July , 2009 I know this thread is probably an ex parrot but I had something to add. I found, downloaded and read Grahams account which sounded a little embellished. I looked up Reid's court martial docs as well as the 2SG, 1RWF and 2Border war diaries, Fitzwygram's, Garforth's and Townsend's officer's personnel files from the PRO. I've yet to read through everything but the following wereevident - CQMS Lawton was Sgt Maj Y - though his evidence soundedpretty matter-of-fact and was no more damning than that given by others. It would seem Lawton became the historic fall-guy for Reid's death even though Reid was failed by the military justice system - he had no defending or advising officer and his case was rushed through. - These included LCpl McKechnie (another of the dead mentioned on this thread and definitely F Coy) and Sergeant Major J Moncur (I surmise as the RSM of 2SG - the RSM 'Jimmy' that Graham mentions was still popular on the day of Reids shooting) - There are a number of conflicting accounts of which orchard was the site of the last battle of F Company - though accounts suggest it was mixed with elements of 1RWF and other regiments. - The officers bodies were found shortly after the battle and accounts vary as to where this was and why the men weren't brought in. Hopefully this adds something and as I analyse the docs further I'll have some better answers CWT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted 23 June , 2011 Share Posted 23 June , 2011 Colin is perhaps too modest to mention that he has written up his findings on the 'Immortals' thus far in a three part article which concludes in the August/September 2011 issue of Stand To! Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestiltskin Posted 24 June , 2011 Share Posted 24 June , 2011 There are articles on it in the WFA Stand to Magazine it's in three parts part 3 to come Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Festubert Immortals Posted 15 September , 2011 Share Posted 15 September , 2011 Hello there. I am wondering if anyone can help me with an enquiry? I would like to know if anyone has any information on the eighty officers and men of F Company, 2nd Battalion Scots Guards who fought to the death at the Battle of Festubert on 16th May 1915? I am interested in individual names or any information that would help my research. Many thanks, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 15 September , 2011 Share Posted 15 September , 2011 Paul Have a look at this thread: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53394&st=0&p=499462&hl=immortals&fromsearch=1entry499462 Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 15 September , 2011 Share Posted 15 September , 2011 Paul Have a look at this thread: http://1914-1918.inv...=1 Mel I have the relevant volume of the Official History. If you could be a bit more specific as to the information you are looking for, I'll happily look it up for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriaty Posted 15 September , 2011 Share Posted 15 September , 2011 There has been a 3 part series entitled "Private X and the Immortal Eighty of Festubert" by Colin Taylor in Stand To! the journal of the Western Front Association. Part 3 is in issue No 92, August/September 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Festubert Immortals Posted 15 September , 2011 Share Posted 15 September , 2011 Dear Forum members, Thank you very much for getting back to me so quickly - much appreciated! I will try to get hold of the relevant magazine issues on the 'immortal eighty!. However, if any of you know whether a 9234 Private Jospeh Baxter of 2nd Battalion Scots Guards was a member of F Company, then please let me know, as he was killed on 16th May. Many thanks, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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