BIFFO Posted 31 May , 2006 Share Posted 31 May , 2006 in deaths men,there is a very brief mention of the imortal eighty of festubert,who were they and why are they imortal?,I think it is something to do with the welsh division at mametz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Byrne Posted 14 August , 2006 Share Posted 14 August , 2006 in deaths men,there is a very brief mention of the imortal eighty of festubert,who were they and why are they imortal?,I think it is something to do with the welsh division at mametz I did send you an email reply to this earlier today. It refers to part of F Company, 2 Scots Guards who were surrounded and killed to a man at Festubert on 16 May, 1915. This is directly connected to the execution of Isaac Reid following the action at Neuve Chapelle between 10-13 March, 1915. The story has it that members of Reid's Company (F) were afraid that the man's conduct reflected badly on them and they resolved that the next time they went into action they would not allow themselves to be taken prisoner, nor would they surrender. The assault began in the early morning of 16 May and part of 'F' Co simply disappeared. Their bodies were discovered a week or so later when the British advanced. They were found encircled by a ring of dead Germans and true to their word they died to a man. Stephen Graham recounts the story in his book 'A Private in the Guards'. According to Graham the newspapers of the time carried the story but I have never been able to trace a copy. Hope this helps. Best, Paul Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_J Posted 14 August , 2006 Share Posted 14 August , 2006 There is a passing reference to the incident in The Times of May 29th 1915, in an article written by John Buchan about Festubert. He states: - "In this part of the battle, a Company of the Scots Gurads, with two officers, got too far ahead and were cut off...........when some days later we took the place we found the Guards lying on the field of honour with swathes of the enemys dead around them." Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Byrne Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 There is a passing reference to the incident in The Times of May 29th 1915, in an article written by John Buchan about Festubert. He states: - "In this part of the battle, a Company of the Scots Gurads, with two officers, got too far ahead and were cut off...........when some days later we took the place we found the Guards lying on the field of honour with swathes of the enemys dead around them." Alan Thanks Alan. I'll try and locate the article itself. Best, Paul Byrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Now then if we have the battalion and the day, I guess getting the names of the dead would be the next logical step from the CWGC site and then perhaps they could be posted as the immortals on the forum for all to see. off you go lads, next project. Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Arm, SDGW list 109 men of the Scots Guards who died that day - unfortunately it doesn't tell us which battalions they served with. Interestingly enough, one of "my men" was killed this day with the 2nd Battalion, James Ferns Naylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 These chaps MAY BE some of them. All 2nd Bn Scots Guards Killed 16/5/15. Name: ADAM, THOMAS Initials: T Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 5056 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: ADAMS, JOSEPH Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 11482 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: ANDERTON, JAMES Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 18 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 8651 Additional information: Son of James Anderton, of 62, Manley St., Lower Ince, Wigan. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: ATKINSON, HENRY Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10765 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: BAINES, NORBERT RICHARD Initials: N R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 24 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10169 Additional information: Son of Edward and Margaret Baines, of Fern Cottage, Palmer's Green. London. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: BAPTIE, ADAM Initials: A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 11953 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL I could go on. I know they may have been in other companies but they are all 2SG died 16/5/15 and all on Le Touret Memorial. High chance they are the men you're after. Name: BAXTER, JOSEPH Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 26 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 9234 Additional information: Eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. James Baxter, of "Park Wood View", Copster Green, Salesbury, Blackburn. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL As Derek says SDGW doesn't give Bn but all the men I've crossed refferenced with CWGC does state Bn so I've been able to leave out the 1st Bn men who died same day. This chap isn't one either he's C company. Name: BECK, HERBERT HARVEY Initials: H H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: "C" Coy. 2nd Bn. Age: 22 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 8780 Additional information: Son of Frank and Mary Jane Beck, of Park House, Roeburndale, Wray, Lancaster. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: BECKETT, FREDERICK Initials: F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 24 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 8453 Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. T. Beckett, of 1, St. Ignatius Place, Preston. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: BECKETT, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10341 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: BELL, GEORGE Initials: G Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Serjeant Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 4734 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 It's getting too awkward too continually edit other post so here's another group of 2SG men. Name: BELLAS, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 41 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10551 Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Bellas, of Penrith, Cumberland; husband of Margaret Bellas, of 14, Bowles St., Bootle, Liverpool. Enlisted in 1914. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL These two died 2 days later.But he's 2SG. I'll add them too. Name: BLACK, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 18/05/1915 Service No: 11521 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: BLACK, WILLIAM JOHN Initials: W J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 26 Date of Death: 18/05/1915 Service No: 11643 Additional information: Son of Mrs. Isabella Black, late of Brander Library, Huntly, Aberdeenshire, and the late Peter Black. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 This man died of wounds the next day. Name: BONNAR, DUNDAS KEMP Initials: D K Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 34 Date of Death: 17/05/1915 Service No: 10398 Additional information: Husband of Mary Bonnar, of 351, Holmlea Rd., Cathcart, Glasgow. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: III. D. 11. Cemetery: BETHUNE TOWN CEMETERY Name: BOWEN, JOHN HENRY Initials: J H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 22 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 12139 Additional information: Son of James and Ann Rebecca Bowen, of The Firs, Malvern, Natal, South Africa. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: BOYD, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 31 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 4124 Additional information: Son of the late John Boyd, of Edinburgh; husband of Margaret Boyd, of Home Farm, Belhaven Estate, Wishaw, Lanarkshire. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 BINGO An F Coy man. Name: BREBBER, ROBERT Initials: R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: "F" Coy. 2nd Bn. Age: 41 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10872 Additional information: Son of the late Capt. John Brebber (Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders); husband of the late Jean Brebber. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Here's another 18/5/15 man. Really should leave these off but..... Name: BRISTOW, WILLIAM FRANCIS Initials: W F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 39 Date of Death: 18/05/1915 Service No: 2475 Additional information: Son of the late Joseph and Harriett Bristow, of London. Served in the South African Campaign. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Enclosure No.4 III. K. 20. Cemetery: BEDFORD HOUSE CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Name: BUCK, FRED Initials: F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 22 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10646 Additional information: Son of George and Elizabeth Buck, of 10, South View, Lostock Hall, Preston. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 This one was born in Wiltshire. Name: BURROUGH, ARTHUR GEORGE Initials: A G Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Serjeant Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 6289 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL That's the end of the "B"s will start on the "C"s later. Unless someone else wants to continue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 (edited) Well done chaps, I wonder if the gaurds Museum would be able to help? Keep going Arm (sneaks off to let someone else get on with the work) PPS I will send the Museum an e-mail to see if they can assist with the names. Edited 15 August , 2006 by armourersergeant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 E-mail sent I will let you know what they say. Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Byrne Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 E-mail sent I will let you know what they say. Arm I did write to the Regimental secretary of the Scots Guards in 2000 about this but they were unable to assist. Would be interested to hear if you have any luck. Best, Paul Byrne. P.S. One of the officers did end up as a POW following this action. He was the CO of F Co, Captain Sir Francis Fitzwygram. One of the others, havent got the paperwork with me at present, is buried at Pont du Hem Cemetery situated alongside the La Bassee to Estaires road (approx. 1/2 mile north of Port Arthur Indian Memorial). The actual site of the action, which I walked in 1995, is very much the same as it was in 1915. Well worth a visit to honour and remember a very courageos body of Brirish soldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunchy Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Paul, I will be in the area in September. Where is the site? Regards Crunchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_J Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 I note that most of these men are commemorated on the Le Touret Memorial. However, Dundas Bonner (died 17th) is buried at Bethune, which would make sense from Festubert if wounded. But William Francis Bristow, died 18th May is buried at Bedford House - a fair way away and not exactly on a logical route back for one injured at Festubert. Interesting! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Map of the battle from Ponsonby's Grenadiers in The Great War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Close up of 2SG position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Here I am onto C. A died of wounds man. Name: CALDWELL Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 19/05/1915 Service No: 11960 Additional information: Native of Kirkcudbrightshire. Son of Mrs. Agnes Caldwell Edgar, of Mull Farm, Drummore, Stranraer. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: III. D. 73. Cemetery: BETHUNE TOWN CEMETERY Name: CAMPBELL, JOHN Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 8887 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Another DofW Name: CANTSFIELD, WILLIAM Initials: W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 39 Date of Death: 19/05/1915 Service No: 5861 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. H. 15A. Cemetery: WIMEREUX COMMUNAL CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 I'm going to leave out the KIA for 18/5/15 as there are a growing number. I'll stick with the KIA for 16/5/15 and D of Wds men only. Name: CHAMP, WILFRED GEORGE Initials: W G Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 24 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 9857 Additional information: Son of Frederick and Georgina Champ, of 23, East Lulworth, Wareham, Dorset. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: COOK, JAMES Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10827 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Name: CORFIELD Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 6063 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. M. 2. Cemetery: GUARDS CEMETERY, WINDY CORNER, CUINCHY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Doubt if they are related SDGW has them from different areas of UK. Name: CROOKSTON, JAMES Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 31 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 9924 Additional information: Born at Hamilton, Lanark. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: X. C. 13. Cemetery: PONT-DU-HEM MILITARY CEMETERY, LA GORGUE Name: CROOKSTON, JOHN Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 24 Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10043 Additional information: Son of David Crookston, of 920, Duke St., Dennistoun, Glasgow. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 Name: CUTHBERTSON, ALEXANDER SWAINSON Initials: A S Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: Scots Guards Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Date of Death: 16/05/1915 Service No: 10660 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 and 4. Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 15 August , 2006 Share Posted 15 August , 2006 You keep this up Owen and you'll be a General by the end of it. Keep up the good work Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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