Cameron highlanders cap badge

[FROGSMILE]

Frogsmile,

Sorry to be a pedant, but the glaring error on the 'definitive information from the contemporary War Illustrated of 1915' is that it has the Royal Scots wearing a solid blue Glengarry when, in fact, they wore a diced Glengarry bonnet.

Aye,

Tom McC

Not at all Tom, you are not being pedantic, it is indeed an error and may well have been an error in the printed dress regulations (not sure if it's from the 1900 or 1911 iteration). As you will know well, those compiling regulations as well as the print setters themselves made (and still make) errors, but that does not change the fact that the illustrations were (originally) issued by the authorities and not a fantasist.

You are one of the gentlemen that I was referring to who might have the necessary PVCNs to clarify how the various regiments ORs caps were made up over the period 14-18. Can you help?

[Ian Riley]

Steve, no one else has picked up your query. I can only say that in my time, I had a cap badge albeit in a blue bonnet. My day to day TOS had simply a red hackle. Anyway, it was referred to as a cap badge not a bonnet badge.

My friend, the guru on the dress of the Liverpool Scottish over forty years, always refers to a 'bonnet badge'. The official dress regulations for the (new) Royal Regiment of Scotland refer to a 'cap badge' and are thus clearly written by a member of the 42nd of Foot.

Ian

[Steven Broomfield]

Steve, no one else has picked up your query. I can only say that in my time, I had a cap badge albeit in a blue bonnet. My day to day TOS had simply a red hackle. Anyway, it was referred to as a cap badge not a bonnet badge.

Thank you, kind sir. I thought I'd been forgotten.

My friend, the guru on the dress of the Liverpool Scottish over forty years, always refers to a 'bonnet badge'. The official dress regulations for the (new) Royal Regiment of Scotland refer to a 'cap badge' and are thus clearly written by a member of the 42nd of Foot.

Ian

And thank you, too, even if you've disagreed with M'Learned Friend. Oh dear.

[Andrew Upton]

Sorry to be a pedant, but the glaring error on the ‘definitive information from the contemporary War Illustrated of 1915’ is that it has the Royal Scots wearing a solid blue Glengarry when, in fact, they wore a diced Glengarry bonnet.

Thank you Tom for having so ably demonstrated the point I was making .

[Tom A McCluskey]

Sorry Frogsmile,

I do not have the publications you refer to.

Aye,

Tom McC

[FROGSMILE]

Sorry Frogsmile,

I do not have the publications you refer to.

Aye,

Tom McC

Thanks Tom, I suspect that one of the other Scots specialists will have a copy lurking somewhere. Just for interest I enclose a couple of RACD issue ORs glengarries from WW1, one KOSB (missing its rosette) and one Gordons.

[gordon92]

Hi

I hope you don't mind me coming in late on this one.

The Queens Own Cameron Highlanders, were the old 79th and they kept what was their old badge.

It showed St. Andrew and his Cross within a wreath of thistles, all in white metal.

The pattern " see photo",embodies also a scroll"Cameron". The sealed pattern for this latter badge was dated

1897 but an account from the Regiment contends that it was first issued in 1912. However, the 1st Battalion who

received these while at Aldershot, did not protest and so, the official Regiment badge in use in 1914 bore the scroll,

" Cameron".

Regards.

Gerwyn

Although this is an old thread, I thought I would add some qualifying information that I do not think has been mentioned about the addition of the scroll to the Cameron Highlanders bonnet badge. The scroll was indeed added in 1897 (see p 101-102 of Bloomer Badges of the Highland and Lowland Regiments). The scroll was added unilaterally by a storeman without the concurrence of the regiment and to their chagrin; allegedly this was done to remind the storemen to which regiment the badge belonged. Consequently, after the scrolled version came into use the old version was much more cherished by those soldiers fortunate enough to own them.

[FROGSMILE]

Although this is an old thread, I thought I would add some qualifying information that I do not think has been mentioned about the addition of the scroll to the Cameron Highlanders bonnet badge. The scroll was indeed added in 1897 (see p 101-102 of Bloomer Badges of the Highland and Lowland Regiments). The scroll was added unilaterally by a storeman without the concurrence of the regiment and to their chagrin; allegedly this was done to remind the storemen to which regiment the badge belonged. Consequently, after the scrolled version came into use the old version was much more cherished by those soldiers fortunate enough to own them.

A very interesting and humorous anecdote. Thank you for posting it.

[Tim P]

I see that this thread illustrates the black rosette behind the cap badge whilst other threads state it was omitted. which was more common for SNCO's?

I feel I may know the answer already but clarification would be good.

Elsewhere it has been mooted that the 4th batallion appear to have had badges with no backing. maybe there was batallion variation.

[Chris_Baker]

Would any of the badge experts here be able to confirm whether this is of the Cameron Highlanders? At first glance I thought it was, but the flattish "scroll" along the bottom makes me pause. Having said that, I can't think what else it might be.

[TullochArd]

I see nobody has yet mentioned the Cameron Highlanders was a "bow" and not a "rosette" unlike the one illustrated in the 'definitive information from the contemporary War Illustrated of 1915'  Frogsmile, true to form, provides the evidence at #4 for officers.  The photo (attached) shows similar worn amongst JNCOs (post-war 1920's) 

Edited 17 April , 2020 by TullochArd
(post-war 1920's)

[TullochArd]

1 hour ago, Chris_Baker said:

Would any of the badge experts here be able to confirm whether this is of the Cameron Highlanders? At first glance I thought it was, but the flattish "scroll" along the bottom makes me pause. Having said that, I can't think what else it might be.

 

Not Cameron Highlanders - Tyneside Scottish I would say

Edited 17 April , 2020 by TullochArd

[Chris_Baker]

Ooh, good call. That had not occurred to me at all. 

[mark holden]

55 minutes ago, Chris_Baker said:

Ooh, good call. That had not occurred to me at all. 

Definitely Tyneside Scottish. 

[FROGSMILE]

I agree Tyneside Scottish, m’learned friend TullochArd has winningly beat me to it.

[Ron Abbott]

On 10/09/2011 at 03:52, Steven Broomfield said:

Thank you, kind sir. I thought I'd been forgotten.

And thank you, too, even if you've disagreed with M'Learned Friend. Oh dear.

 

....don't know the history behind it, but the Scots Guards refer to theirs as a 'cap star'.