Good Books on Verdun?

[phil andrade]

Fifty years ago a book on the Great War did not to have to exhibit profound knowledge in order to sell. If the style was good, and the story compelling, then people would buy it.

Horne's book made Verdun capture the imagination of the English speaking world, and that was enough.

In order to make headway today, the bar is raised very high indeed.

Just reading your post, Paul, depicting the relationship between the German military science of fortress warfare and the exigencies of 1914-1918, and the "disconnect" between Fifth Army's battle and the Falkenhaynian concept, brings home how esoteric the studies are becoming.

With such high standards, the prospects of trying to publish books that will sell are so daunting.

Phil (PJA)

[bob lembke]

What makes the context even more compelling was that once you establish what "normal" was in the realm of fortress warfare, you can see where a lot of the elements of 5. AOK's plan for the Verdun offensive came from--a good deal of it comes almost word for word out of the guidance (the 1910 instruction for fortress warfare). Some, but not all. The plan seems to be an unfortunate concoction of some elements, incorrectly applied, and others perhaps developed during the war.

Paul

Paul;

Fascinated with the mention of the "1910 instruction for fortress warfare". I have not heard of it. Was that a Denkschrift? Any clue to where it can be found?

There was previous mention about the German consumption of artillery ammunition at Verdun. As I recall from my work of several years ago, I found detailed data on the size of the stockpile of ammunition accumulated for the battle. Guessing, I found it in one of the Schlachten series volumes (4) that covered Verdun, or possibly in the correct volume of Der Weltkriege 1914 bis 1918. But you are right, I do not recall finding data on the consumption of artillery ammunition, once the battle began.

One tiny detail of the German preperations for the battle that sticks in my mind is the construction of a seltzer water factory in the vicinity to supply the men with a refreshing beverage; I also suspect that the carbonization provides contents that make the water not only refreshing but mildly antibiotic, keeping the beverage healthy. Not sure here about the medical question.

Bob

[SWorrall]

Thanks Simon. It sounds like the two equivalent books about the British and Dominion involvement in the Somme and Third Ypres. Both books are difficult to come by now but 'The Somme: The Day by Day Account' and 'Passchendaele: The Day by Day Account' by Chris McCarthy stand out as very helpful in understanding both campaigns.

Robert

Robert,

I have both of McCarthy's volumes next to me here. Taken together they amount to about 60% of the size of the Verdun volume I mentioned.

And, yes, they are excellent, I agree.

Simon.

[Paul Hederer]

Sorry for the delay in answering...I'm in the process of moving, and being in the modern country of Germany, it normally takes 2-3 weeks to have the phone and internet connected

Unfortunately, I can't provide the information on the statistics for ammunition usage at Verdun--the material is not in any type of presentable format.

Bob, the instruction I refer to is the Anleitung für den Kampf um Festungen

(K. u. f.) dated 13. August 1910.

There is a real difference between dissertation topics and popular literature. A thesis by definition is generally narrow, so it could easily be characterised as esoteric. There is defintely more room for good popular works on Verdun.

Verdun has been presented as a human event, and a tragic one--but there is defintely something more to be learned by looking at the operational/military aspects as well, and not only about the battle, but the way the German Army functioned.

Paul

[Paul Hederer]

One book I do not think has been mentioned is Alain Denizot's "Verdun, 1914-1918," which is excellent-but unfortunately only in French. It compiles a lot of very valuable information.

Paul

[Robert Dunlop]

Taken together they amount to about 60% of the size of the Verdun volume I mentioned.

Thanks Simon. The Verdun volume is excellent, though much more of the 'content' is taken up with images (a wonderful selection) and lots of supplementary notes. The actual day-to-day accounts are lighter and less detailed. A superb work though.

Robert

[usa2uk]

Three books on finer details of the battle:

Klauer, Markus - Die Hoehe Toter Mann - The Hill Dead Man

Klauer, Marcus - Die Hoehe 304 - The Hill 304

Schmitz, Bernhard; Fort Vaux - just translate the rest of the title - Seven Glorious Days of Combat from June 3 to June 10 1916 of the Fusilier Regiment General Ludendorff (Lower Rhine) Nr. 39

Bob

I have been reading this thread with great interest as my study of the Great War has shifted to Verdun.

I recently finished "Price of Glory" and while (as stated already) it provided a great introduction to the battle from it's conception to end, it definitely left me wanting more. While I enjoy reading about the generals and the battle tactics, I am more interested about the man on the ground. Their trials and tribulations, their experiences, and their suffering, as for me that is what sets the Great War apart from all others. And Verdun took it to a whole new level.

Bob, these books that you mention above, are they available in English? Or German only.

[bob lembke]

I have been reading this thread with great interest as my study of the Great War has shifted to Verdun.

Bob, these books that you mention above, are they available in English? Or German only.

Well, I never checked, but almost certainly only in German. I have corresponded with Hauptmann Klauer, and he never mentioned any intent to bring out an English edition. I think he self-published, which might be a problem with that. But of course, as the English or the Americans did not fight there (in the span of the classic definition of the battle; February to December 1916), not that many people seriously interested in the Battle are only English speakers. But I feel that the rumors of the "English gene" (the one that prevents the English from reading foreign languages) are only that, rumors. I never learned German as a kid, as my mother and I were almost jammed in a concentration camp in 1943, and she was scared to death of my learning German, and thereby be more identifiable, and I only taught myself to read it in 2000, when I found my father's and grand-father's letters from the front, many from Verdun. I also found, although my last French class had been 45 years before, I could read it fairly easily. (I had not been a very good student of it, or, more correctly, an awful student of French.) Presently, for the last year, for my WW I studies and writing, I read French, German and Flemish about 4-5 hours most days, my English reading on WW I is about 1-2% of my reading. English is a Germanic language, if the one furthest from German. Give it a shot. My wife, who is mostly English, from the Midlands (left 1634), works with an estimated 80 languages at work, 40 in any given year, (I know that sounds a bit extreme) although she only has studied about 12 of them. But she is a on-off.

Bob

[healdav]

Well, I never checked, but almost certainly only in German. I have corresponded with Hauptmann Klauer, and he never mentioned any intent to bring out an English edition. I think he self-published, which might be a problem with that. But of course, as the English or the Americans did not fight there (in the span of the classic definition of the battle; February to December 1916), not that many people seriously interested in the Battle are only English speakers. But I feel that the rumors of the "English gene" (the one that prevents the English from reading foreign languages) are only that, rumors. I never learned German as a kid, as my mother and I were almost jammed in a concentration camp in 1943, and she was scared to death of my learning German, and thereby be more identifiable, and I only taught myself to read it in 2000, when I found my father's and grand-father's letters from the front, many from Verdun. I also found, although my last French class had been 45 years before, I could read it fairly easily. (I had not been a very good student of it, or, more correctly, an awful student of French.) Presently, for the last year, for my WW I studies and writing, I read French, German and Flemish about 4-5 hours most days, my English reading on WW I is about 1-2% of my reading. English is a Germanic language, if the one furthest from German. Give it a shot. My wife, who is mostly English, from the Midlands (left 1634), works with an estimated 80 languages at work, 40 in any given year, (I know that sounds a bit extreme) although she only has studied about 12 of them. But she is a on-off.

Bob

Of course, the "English gene" is a myth. Just as the French gene is a myth (the French are also, by choice, hopeless at learning languages). I have grandchildren of 7 and 4 who both speak, English, Luxembourgish, German and Spanish, with some French.

Trouble is that in Britain everyone knows that everyone speaks English, so why bother.

[marsyao]

Trouble is that in Britain everyone knows that everyone speaks English, so why bother.

You should ask Americans, more than one of these "Yanks" told me that British speak English in a funny accent.

[SWorrall]

UK and USA.

Two nations divided by a common language...

Let's call the whole thing off.

Simon.

[bob lembke]

For the last year I have been mostly studying the duels between the big German and Austrian siege guns and the Belgian and French forts in 1914. Especially in the case of Belgium, I am probably reading more "Belgian" sources than German, but in fact the Walloons (French-speaking Belgians, who largely politically followed French politics) and the Flemish seem to have had a somewhat different take on the war, during and after the war. I read two books written by two professors at the University of Liege, about the events of 1914, and they had a very different take on events that they witnessed. In one, by the Walloon professor, I found the original of an elaborate description of something central to what I was focused on, that I had found originally in translation in The Guns of August, which I desperately wanted to use, but first wanted to see in the original, in order to double-check it, the translation, etc.

Well, when I found the original, and with the greater knowledge of events in Liege that I have acquired, I found that the description, seemingly narrated by the Walloon professor, who supposedly stood on a specific street corner in Liege with friends, witnessing the events in question, was entirely a bald fabrication. And I had, for years, wanted to use the passage!

The other book had a very different take on the events. I had assumed that the author was a Flemish professor at the University, but a Flemish friend pointed out to me that the professor in question was actually Luxembourgish. So, perhaps he had a more objective, less partisan take on events.

I think that I am getting a fairly good grasp on the events that I am studying, but I feel that I would be in the weeds if I was forced to only work in English, or even was forced to work in the language of one of the combatants. In another topic I am studying, flame-throwers in WW I, I found a valuable book, but it was in Italian (a simple language), and I was able to translate about half the book without much trouble, although I had to look up most words. In another event, I had one night in the Austrian National Library, and found an amazing book, which I was able to skim, and take notes; again, it was in Italian, and there I had no dictionary.

On Verdun, in the incrediably nasty fighting in the underground corridors at Fort Vaux, I have a description of a German Pionier lieutenant, running down a corridor in the dark with a large explosive charge (a gaballte Ladung), planting the bomb on a French sand-bag barricade in the corridor, pulling the 6 1/2 second fuze, and running away; when it went off, he was, of course wounded. (I assume that he did it himself as he would not ask one of his men to do it, and the only possible outcomes of the feat was either the wounding or the death of the man performing the feat.) And I have the account of the French soldier sentry crouched on the other side of the barricade, in this case a primary narrative, in the soldier's own words; the explosion buried him in the sand-bags, and injured him, in a while his comrades were able to reach him and dig him out, and take him to the awful conditions of a French aid post. My point is that by reading both the German and the French descriptions of this single event, I have a vivid and presumably correct description of this event. I recently saw this event mentioned in another source, and from my reading the event in the original sources I was immediately able to recognize that that account was garbled.

I have the additional advantage in having a good number of letters from my father describing the fighting at Verdun, and conditions in barracks, including four letters describing his most dramatic fighting, and receiving the most serious wound he received at Verdun, and indeed in the entire war. (He averaged almost one wound per month fighting at the front; so the 18 months that that wound kept him out of fighting, by medical orders, probably allowed him to survive the war.) Here of course I have to be able to read Suetterlin and Kurrent, as well as German.

Bob

[usa2uk]

Thanks for the reply Bob.

I did actually take German for 03 years in high school! Unfortunately I never put it to good use, and the brain cells died off through lack of use.....

It is good to know that you are working on some books, as it would seem that you have a lot of useful / valuable information and resources in your personal library. I look forward to the one about your family's exploits!

Perhaps you could work with Jack Sheldon and co-author a book: The German Army at Verdun??

All the best.

[healdav]

The other book had a very different take on the events. I had assumed that the author was a Flemish professor at the University, but a Flemish friend pointed out to me that the professor in question was actually Luxembourgish. So, perhaps he had a more objective, less partisan take on events.

Do you know his name. I have never ever come across a Luxembourger who knows anything about WW1.

[bob lembke]

Do you know his name. I have never ever come across a Luxembourger who knows anything about WW1.

Will look for it. The way my material is organized I will need a bit of time. But he was in the middle of it, until he was able to slip out of Liege and escape to the UK.

Bob