Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Sign in to follow this  
paullucas01

Lithuanians sent from Scotland to Russia

Recommended Posts

eltoro1960

My information is primarily about Newtongrange although occasionally marriages etc bring into play people from towns, usually Bellshill or other villages in Midlothian. Interested in the cheaper credits at Scottish libraries. I want to trawl the 1911 census in more depth but not at £1.40 a page.

Always happy to help people.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest MattMcP

Hi Guys

ive read this post with great interest,my aunt mary was lithuanian,she never spoke to me about lithuania but the thread got my interest as i have fond memorys of her.The Familly name was Domenicaytis,i find that on her marrage cert her father was listed as a furnace worker and marked as deseased in 1922, i can find no record of him dying in scotland so perhaps he was one of the Lithuanians who did not return.They lived in carfin in scotland. I used to work in a factory in scotland and there was two guys there who had lithuanian grandfathers . I may be wrong but i think there was a lithuanian club in motherwell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

The Lithy club is still there in Mossend - you can become a member for the princely sum of 2 pounds.

It was about to be closed in 2008 but it was rescued.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

Domenicaytis is not a Lithuanian proper name so it has been corrupted when recorded in Scotland - it may be Domeikis (male) or Domeikytis (unmarried female)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frances togneri

Hi

In case anyone is interested, I don't know how widespread the scheme is, but my local library sells a card for scotlandspeople = £7 for 60 credits. You can also buy a top up at £5 for 30 credits but this is only a small saving on the usual charge. If you don't mind the hassle, buy the 60 credit card but be prepared to have several lists of searches. Each card has a unique user ID and password. The down side is that you have to think carefully about spending credits if you want to end the last transaction with 0 credits. Also, keep a note if you are doing lots of searches so you know which search is attached to which list! It is possible to change the user ID to help identify the sequescr - eg add a number to the end. These cards can be used either at home or in the library.

Re Lithuanian club - I note their message board has been out of use for several years. I contemplated contacting someone but wasn't convinced anyone still looks at it. The main website promotes only the social club. I met a priest at Carfin grotto when I was tracking down the last surviving Papilauskas. He took an interest when I said I had Lithuanian family and said he too was Lithuanian but uses the name Sneddon now. I don't know how much help he could give. Might follow that!

Frances

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frances togneri

Hi

I have just been contacted by someone who works on the Lithuanian Newspaper Draugas (in Chicago!). He is not promising anything but he will try to obtain papers from 1917 to find whether there is anything of interest for us. He usually looks only at Obituaries. I don't expect to hear back for some time but I will keep you posted on this. He has offered to get a translation too!!!

Frances

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dubs

I went to the National Archives at Kew last week to look at the copy of the Naturalisation Certificate of my grandfather, Jouzas Ziurinskas which is kept there. It was good to see it and they let you take a digital photo which you can email to yourself so you can print it at home for free. If anyone has anything the want looking up in connection with this thread, feel free to let me know as I now have a Reader Ticket which is valid for three years and can get to Kew easily.

Everything has gone quiet on here so I am guessing there are no further leads. My Mum arrives in two days, hopefully with some interesting documents regarding my great-grandfather - I will let you know if they shed any light on his movements during WW1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frances togneri

Dubs

Looking forward to hearing what your mother has to say. I really believe that every little bit we discover can take us one step closer to understanding.

I have nothing new. I have heard nothing from Glasgow Archives so I will have to chase then up after Christmas. Same with Chicago but that take some time yet. It is worth checking the London Gazette for relative's names. I don't think my uncle John took out naturalisation but he was obviously unhappy with his name. My cousin had kept a letter from the Home Office giving him authorisation to change his name to John Miller. At that time intimations of name changes for people or businesses were notified in the London Gazette. Some appeared in the Edinburgh Gazette. Worth a search. My husband found some interesting things in relation to the Italian side.

Well, if anyone checks the forum over Christmas, all the best and hope you have a happy time.

Frances

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dubs

Happy New Year everyone. Quick update on my investigations. My mum brought a load of stuff to show me, which has proved fascinating. Firstly a photocopy of my great granny's Alien Registration Identity Book issued in June 1917 which has a wealth of information including date stamps from the alien departments of various police stations from 1917 through to 1950 when she was exempt from further registration. I now have an alternative maiden name for her mother, which is different to the one on her marriage certificate. This new name is Gregaliute so if any one comes across this I would be interested to hear. The book also states she had a brother Ludvikas Roversteinas fighting for the Allies so if anyone can check the Ancestry.co.uk army records for me that would be useful as I have limited access.

Most exciting however is a recorded oral interview done by a Mr Ian MacDougall of Edinburgh in 1986 with my great granny's daughter, Victoria. Ian appears to be still alive and working as a researcher for the Scottish Working People's History Trust. Basically what I have is a transcript of his interview with my great auntie vic in which she talks about her life as the Scottish-born daughter of immigrant Lithuanian parents in Scotland. She says quite clealy that her father Juozas Ziurinskas was with the British Expeditionary Force in Russia at the end of the war and that she had his discharge papers, which had been passed down to her from her mother. This solves the mystery of how he got back into this country after the war. There is lots of fascinating information in the interview , which runs to about 40 pages of A4! I will endeavour to get hold of these discharge papers from my mum's cousin....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

Hardly any Lithuanian family names start with "greg" maybe be "greb" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

Checked Ancestry - no Roversteinas records - there is a family of Roverstein in 1911 English Census. They are Lithuanian as they come from Pajevonys in Suwalkija where my family come from

1911 England Census

Census & Electoral Rolls

View Image

Preview

Name: Agota Roverstein

Age in 1911: 26

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885

Relation to Head: Wife

Gender: Female

Civil parish: Whitton

County/Island: Durham

Country: England

Street Address: Carlton Iron Works Nr Ferryhil

Registration district: Stockton

Registration District Number: 544

Sub-registration district: Stockton

ED, institution, or vessel: 45

Piece: 29591

Household Members: Name Age

Geo Roverstein 24

Agota Roverstein 26

George Roverstein 1

Agota Roverstein 7/12

Coyemiers Synerpina 28

Joseph Senauskas 41

Joseph Mulauskas 36

Take a look at the picture to see even more.

See more

Name: Agota Roverstein

Spouse: Geo Roverstein

Birth: abt 1885

Residence: 2 Apr 1911 - Whitton, Durham, England

1911 England Census

Census & Electoral Rolls

View Image

Name: Geo Roverstein

Spouse: Agota Roverstein

Birth: abt 1887 - Payewons, Russia

Residence: 2 Apr 1911 - Whitton, Durham, England

1911 England Census

Census & Electoral Rolls

View Image

Name: George Roverstein

Birth: abt 1910 - Whitton, Durham, England

Residence: 2 Apr 1911 - Whitton, Durham, England

1911 England Census

Census & Electoral Rolls

View Image

Name: Agota Roverstein

Birth: abt 1910 - Whitton, Durham, England

Residence: 2 Apr 1911 - Whitton, Durham, England

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

Nothing on Ludviks Roversteinas on Ancestry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

Nothing for Juozas Ziurinskas on Ancestry either

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dubs

Thanks Paul, much appreciated. Have done some more investigating and I think the name was Grigaliute, which I believe is a Lithanian name. Seems a bit odd that in 1913 when she married, her mothers maiden name was down as Tankuscas but in 1917 on the Alien Registration Booklet she says it is Grigaliute. There is another Ziurinskas on the 1913 marriage certificate - I do know that Great Grandpa's brother came to Stoneyburn for a while then went back to Lithuania, so this could be him. The name is hard to make out but I think it is Augustas Ziurinskas (or perhaps Augustinas). The interview also says that Great Granny's brother (Ludvikas presumably) emigrated later on from Lithuania - my great aunt corresponded in Lithuanian on behalf of her mother with relatives in Ohio, so perhaps this is where he ended up. I believe another sister married a Mr Sarkauskas and emigrated to Ohio.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

Names beginning witth Griga- are ,much more common.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

1 1961 ZIURINSKAS JUOZUS GREEN M 73 ATHELSTANEFORD /EAST LOTHIAN 703/00 0087 2 1966 ZIURINSKAS MARYONA Not Permissible ROBERSTEINAS GREEN F 77 DALKEITH /MIDLOTHIAN 683/00 0035 No Image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

Previous post shows Juozos Zirurinskas death certifcate with Maryona (Marijona) Ziurinskas - her surname was Robersteinas - therefore Roversteinas

It looks like they were known as Green

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

3 1913 ZIURINCKAS YUOZAS ROVERSTEIN MARE WEST CALDER /MIDLOTHIAN

Previous post is their marriage in 1913

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paullucas01

Sorry for the typing mistakes in the previous post - this message board is not easy to use sometimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frances togneri

Wow! I missed this sudden flurry of activity. The name Green fits with the Stoneyburn story of the supervisor at the mine head refusing to note the Lithuanian names and allocating a colour to them instead. I think there are still families with this name in Stoneyburn. Have you checked these names in the London Gazette? They may have recorded a change of name. I checked Familysearch but no-one has entered these names into the database.

I don't know what you plan to do with the Aliens Reg book but here is a suggestion. I used my Uncle's book to track his life. He seemed to have been a bit distant from his mother and new brothers and sisters, being older by several years, and also spent some time around his father and his new wife. It proved to be a very interesting project and filled in gaps in what was known about the life of my mother, particularly after my grandmother remarried in 1941.

Frances

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dubs

Frances, I havent checked the London Gazette but I will do, thanks for that tip. Yes, I have used the Aliens Reg book to track my great grandparents movements - I have made a timeline so I can see where they went. My great grandpa came alone at first to Stoneyburn around late 1911/early 1912. He was a tailor by trade but couldnt get a job so went down the pits. He was joined by Maryona and baby Joseph (my grandad) around Feb 2013 - they came on the boat to Leith from Hamburg, I believe (if someone has access to the passenger lists, could they check for a Maryona/Marie/Mare Roverstein(as) for me. They werent married at this point so she was probably travelling under her maiden name. In 1915 they then moved to Glasgow where he got work as a tailor but he had a bad back from a terrible accident in the Ruhr valley steelworks when he was working in Germany and found it hard to do the tailors work and great granny didnt like Glasgow so they went back to Stoneyburn and he went back down the pits. He was sacked from the Stoneyburn pit for taking part in the strikes. I have contacted the Scottish Working Peoples History Trust and they are going to pass a message onto the chap who interviewed my Great Aunt. I am keeping my fingers crossed that he got a copy of my great grandpa's discharge papers - he specifically asked for them in a letter to my Great Aunt in 1996.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frances togneri

Dubs

I no longer have a membership to Ancestry so can't help there but I have spoken with my cousin. He knows a Green family in the Stoneyburn area and believes they are of Lithuanian origin. He says he will try to find out if there is a connection to you. I will let you know. I am going to France for 2 months, so after next week my email will be sporadic as we don't have broadband at the apartment but we try to visit a cafe regularly.

Frances

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frances togneri

Dubs

Further to the above, I have been reviewing my uncle's Aliens Reg Book. He moved around for work but I note that on 4 April 1929 he was residing c/o Green, 27 Paulville Rows, Bathgate. Any connection???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dubs

Dubs

Further to the above, I have been reviewing my uncle's Aliens Reg Book. He moved around for work but I note that on 4 April 1929 he was residing c/o Green, 27 Paulville Rows, Bathgate. Any connection???

Wow! Yes, yes, yes!!!! Just checked Great Granny's Alien reg book and it has a stamp for March 1929 for 27 Paulville Rows, Bathgate. The next stamp is 17 Feb 1930 for 21 Greig Crescent, Armadale. Your Uncle knew my great granny and grandpa - how cool is that!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
frances togneri

This is great!! I suspect my grandmother moved to Bathgate around this date but I don't yet know the circumstances. She had a baby with an unknown person called Joseph Miller but I have no further information about him or how long they were together. He may have taken her there from Edinburgh. My uncle John did not live with the family until 19 April 1929 when he moved to my Gran's address at 53 Durhamtown, Bathgate. She married again in December 1930, still living at Durhamtown, and sometime during the following year, her new husband took them all to Drumnadrochit to work on the road improvements along Loch Ness. I think my Uncle John possibly lodged with the Green family only until my gran could get a bed ready for him at her own address. They kept in touch with some people in or around Bathgate and cousins remember visiting people. A family called Savage (Pashukevich) seem to have been their main friends.

Frances

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...