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Remembered Today:

French O o B for August 1915


michaeldr

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This is the French OoB for August 1915 as given in the British OH

A couple of questions: Who commanded the French 2nd Division at this time?

And specifically for our Francophone Pals:

Bailloud's given names – I have seen this done two ways; with and without a hyphen between them. Which should it be?

The British OoB gives their generals their respective post nominals; Did the egalitarian French do without them, or should they be given, & if so how?

(Both generals had the Légion d'honneur; I believe that in August 1915 one had the Grand Cross and the other was a Commander)

Please let me slip in one more question here:

What is the correct (& brief) way to describe artillery odd & ends?

Is it 'un-brigaded guns' 'non-brigaded guns' or what exactly?

Thanks in advance for your help here

Michael

CORPS EXPÉDITIONNAIRE d'ORIENT

Commander: General M. C. Bailloud,

1st Division

General J.-M. J. A. Brulard,

1st Metropolitan Brigade:

175th Regiment

1st Regiment de marche d'Afrique (2 Battalions Zouaves, 1 Battalion Foreign Legion)

Foreign Legion Battalion (2 Companies)

2nd Colonial Brigade:

4th Colonial Regiment

6th Colonial Regiment

6 Batteries of Artillery (75-mm.)

2 Batteries of Artillery (65-mm.)

2nd Division

3rd Metropolitan Brigade:

176th Regiment

2nd Regiment de marche d'Afrique (3 Battalions Zouaves)

4th Colonial Brigade:

7th Colonial Regiment

8th Colonial Regiment

9 Batteries of Artillery (75-mm.)

Corps Artillery

1 Heavy Battery, 120-mm. long (4.7-inch)

1 Heavy Battery, 155-mm. long (6-inch)

2 Heavy Batteries, 155-mm. short (6-inch)

2 Siege Guns, 240-mm. (9.4-inch)

Battery of naval guns.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Michael,

I imagine as a worldy and well travelled man you can speak French, in which case may I suggest you visit the French Army History site, they have scanned all of their War Diaries. it is outstanding, though it has been many months since I visited it and I don't know the link.

Regards,

Chris

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Hi,

the first commander of the C.E.O (Corps Expéditionnaire d'Orient) in April 1915 was the général d'Amade, but became sick and very affected by the death of his son he was releived by the général Henri Gouraud on 15 May 1915.

On the 30 June 1915 Gouraud was inspecting Seddul-Bahr when a shell fired from the forts on the Asian side hit him: he was badly wounded and evacuated (I beleive that he lost his arm).

the général Maurice Camille BAILLOUD, who was previously commanding the 2nd Division, was given the command of the all C.E.O. but was still the commander of the 2nd Division.

I have also the OoB from the french archives, I will have a look.

It's sometimes a little bit confusing with the artillery units, some brigades were more or less "independants", others attached to the Army Corps, or the Division or the Brigade...

Also the names of the Colonial units have changed, i.e the "4th bn de marche mixte Colonial" became the "54 régiment Colonial", etc...

Sly

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Sly,

Many thanks for the offer of help here

Chris,

Oh, if only you were right here.

In my day the poor education on offer was mono-lingual. Just as I reached the 5th form, then the lads entering the 1st began to be taught German as a second language. I never mastered the mechanics of learning any language and struggle even today. A native speaker here has to have a vast reservoir of patience if they listen to me attempting to speak their language; such attempts produces a mish-mash of genders and tenses which can be confusing and on rare occasions, amusing.

best regards

Michael

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Michael,

mono-lingual, you got taught lingual! By the way I am Orstraleeean, what are tenses and genders?

Chris

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If you are interested in LOTS of lovely detail then the French war diaries (JMOs) are excellent. The diary of the 1st Division, for example, has a table showing every unit, where each battalion, etc., was based, its strength (officers, ORs, animals, vehicles), the port of departure, the ships used, the date they left port. It also breaks down the infantry regiments into their component parts (e.g. four of the battalions of the Colonial Regiments were Senegalais).

The 1st Division also included the Regiment de Marche de Chasseurs d'Afrique (cavalry) and there is no mention of the separate two companies of the Foreign Legion. They are, I think, the two companies of Etrangers that form the 3rd Battalion of the Regiment de Marche d'Afrique. The diary also gives the same details for the Engineers, Medical support, etc., etc.

If you want to look at them then the war diaries of the divisions and other large units are on line as are the ones for the individual infantry, cavalry, artillery, engineer, etc., units. I presume the naval diaries are also on line.

The war diary of the CEO is: http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/jmo/img-viewer/26_N_75_001/viewer.html

1st Division: http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/jmo/img-viewer/26_N_75_011/viewer.html

2nd Division: http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/jmo/img-viewer/26_N_75_014/viewer.html

For the full list of units higher than regiment, battery, etc., go to: http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/jmo/ead.html?id=SHDGR__GR_26_N_I

then click on: Grandes unités d’Orient et commandement des armées alliées en Orient

then click on: Corps expéditionnaire d'Orient (C.E.O.)

For the individual units go to: http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/jmo/ead.html?id=SHDGR__GR_26_N_II

Click on: Régiments et bataillons and then select from the list as appropriate. Some JMOs are missing. I cannot see the 175 Regiments for example. There are also Brigade JMOs for the 3rd Metropolitan Brigade and a note which says that part of the JMO for the 1st Metropolitan Brigade is to be found under the entry for the 311th Brigade. The earlier months are here: http://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/jmo/img-viewer/26_N_75_013/viewer.html

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Chris,

Here they have a joke about people like me

Aren't you ashamed of your poor command of the language

Yes, but it's easier to learn to be ashamed than to learn the language

... ... ... ... ... ...

Bill,

Many thanks for those useful links

regards

Michael

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Yes,

for those who are interested in the French involvement in the Dardanelles ( and in other areas as well ) the site "memoire des hommes" is great, most of the units diaries, from the Army corps to the Division, Brigade and Regiment, etc... are available.

Some of the maps are very helpfull, especially about the "off the beaten track" sectors...

I will never forget the walking tour that we did this year in the Kereves Dere sector with the trench map from the JMO of the CEO, an unforgetable experience for me...

Bmac, about the "Regiment de Marche des Chasseurs d'Afrique" I beleive that it wasn't a cavalry unit, but you're right about some of the JMO of our colonial units , they are still missing or not open to the public (the 175 R.I and some others). I have been told that some diaries and documents had been lost or stolen at the chateau de Vincennes where most of our war archives are.

Sly

Below are the french units as mentionned in the French cemetery at Seddul-Bahr / Morto Bay

post-20268-0-76806800-1316722273.jpg

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