1/6th Seaforth Highlanders (Morayshire Battalion)

[DAWCaptain]

Hello All,

I am new to this forum, and this is my first post.

A couple of weeks ago I was at the Yanks in Saddleworth event and I met a gentleman who suggested I join the Great War Forum. Anyways, I have been researching my Grandfather's role in the First World War, on and off, for over 15 years now, and I was wondering if anyone on this forum has digital copies of the original War Diaries of the 1/6th Seaforth Highlanders (Morayshire) Battalion. My grandfather served with this battalion from 1/1/14 until his discharge (due to sickness) on 10/7/17. The original war diaries are held in the National Archives WO95/2867.

I am seeking information on my grandfather's movements leading up to the circumstances surrounding his discharge. My Dad believed he was discharged because of an injury relating to the Battle of the Somme, but he never found out for sure.

Many thanks in advance for your help.

Best regards,

Steve

[eltoro1960]

Hi Steve

I have a copy of "The Spirit of the troops is excellent" by Derek Bird, which tells the story of the Battalion in the Great War , but you seem to have omitted your Grandfathers name, so I can't check for him.

John

[DAWCaptain]

Hi John,

My grandfather's name is William Leslie and he enlisted as a Private. I actually just bought a copy of Derek Bird's book during the past week and started to flip through it just last night. Unfortunately, my grandfather's name has not been mentioned. According to what I've dug up so far, he enlisted on 1/1/14 and was discharged (due to sickness) on 10/7/17. What I'm most interested in is the circumstances surrounding his discharge. My father says that William was injured during one of the latter Battles of the Somme, shot in the knee and lost part of his thumb. Other than that, he never found out anything more from him. Perhaps, like many other soldiers, he wanted to put the past behind him and forget.

What I did find out from the book is that I might be able to identify some of the soldiers in the old photos I have of my grandfather. I've made a couple of separate posts, so I'll keep looking and see what I can come up with. Many thanks for your reply.

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Steve

I have a copy of "The Spirit of the troops is excellent" by Derek Bird, which tells the story of the Battalion in the Great War , but you seem to have omitted your Grandfathers name, so I can't check for him.

John

[dycer]

Steve,

Assuming you Grandfather was wounded during a Somme engagement you might consider the Beaumont Hamel November attack as being the most likely action but don't discount "normal" trench warfare.

George.

[seaforths]

Hi Steve,

I posted a reply last night on this for you but it seems to have vanished into hyperspace - possibly due to tech problems that the forum seems to be experiencing hey ho. I posted to let you know I managed to photograph most of the war diary earlier in the year when I visited Kew. My grandfather and five of his cousins served in 6th Battn Seaforth Highlanders. Derek Bird's book is fab and helped me to identify the location of one of my grandad's photos that had been an enigma to me and my mother for years.

I also have a copy of The Morayshire Roll that I checked last night and I may have found some information on your granddad. I found a few William Leslies but only 1 was a private in the 6th Seaforths. Furthermore, he joined on 1/1/1914 (that's why I think it could be your grandad.) His date of birth is given as: 15th December 1896 would this be correct?

If this is so then post if you require further information from the Roll. I will check the war diary based on the information you have given but previous I agree with previous post from George the 6th Seaforths were heavily involved in Beaumont Hamel in November 1916 at the end of the Somme offensives. My grandad's cousin was killed there poor chap.

I will post again on the war diary this evening.

Marjorie

[seaforths]

Hi Steve,

sorry for the delay on this. The Forum was having a bit of a hissy fit the night I was going to post and I ended up giving up. I was further delayed by the arrival of a book I have been after for ages. I have checked the war diaries from July 1916 through to beginning of December which covers the Somme period and includes Beaumont Hamel (for which the diary states on 16 November 1916 - casualties numbered 14 Officers and 263 OR. Regarding William Leslie, I didn't come up with anything I'm afraid - the diary is always a bit of a long shot regarding men if they are not officers. Often the ordinary ranks (ORs) are seen throughout the diary if they have been awarded medals for bravery - MM, MC etc.

Another book that might be worth checking is Richard Van Emden's Last Man Standing about Normal Collins who was with the 5th Battalion but was attached to the 6th Battalion and joined them just before Beaumont Hamel and was also in charge of the burial parties after the battle.

As I said in my previous response I do have information that I believe is your William Leslie from the Morayshire Roll - you might want me to send this information via PM to you which is why I haven't posted it here. If you do require the information then post here how you want to proceed with that one.

Marjorie

[DAWCaptain]

Dear Marjorie,

Thanks so much for your help. And sorry for the tardy reply to your posts. In actual fact, I have actually seen an original publication of the Morayshire Roll-of-Honour and have been able to get a copy of the page that my Granddad is mentioned on. The person you refer to IS my grandfather. I have also seen the 1/6th Seaforth Highlanders war diary, but it did not really shed any light on what really happened to my grandfather.

However, with that said, I have just finished reading Derek Bird's book, "The Spirit of the Troops is Excellent." A very interesting read and very poignant at times. The book did answer a few questions that I have pondered upon for many years, including the possibility, that my grandfather was not actually wounded during the Somme engagement. My father told me that he thinks that my grandfather was accidentally injured and shot in the knee. After reading Derek Bird's book, I now believe that my granddad was accidentally wounded in February 1917. In chapter 11 on Arras, there is mention of a man 'accidentally wounded with a revolver bullet while on march,' and another of a man 'accidentally wounded by a Lewis gun.' There is mention of this in the war diary and also in the Morayshire Roll-of-Honour. To me, this above is the most plausible explanation. But alas I will never know 100% for sure.

So, this would all corroborate with the story I have heard from my Dad. My Dad also mentioned something about my Granddad being gassed, but that could have occurred during another battle. Perhaps, during the Somme. In the end, my grandfather was discharged in July 1917, due to Para 392 xvi K.R. This citation alone sums up most of the story that I have told and brings it all together. However, it would still be nice to know exactly what happened. Alas, I may never know.

One last thing. There is a photo in Derek Bird's book of a group of Seaforths that was taken just after the 15 Sept 1916 trench raid at Armentières. It's the photo on page 98 where the 'laddies' are holding the board proclaiming 'The Spirit of the Troops is Excellent' and 'Hun Snatchers.' Although, I am not absolutely sure, I believe my Granddad is in that photo. I think he's the young soldier, just to the right of Donald Jenkins and 2nd to the right of Alastair MacDonald (the officer who that planned the raid).

Thanks again for your postings and help. And if you've any more info that might be of help, I would be more than happy to hear from you.

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Steve,

sorry for the delay on this. The Forum was having a bit of a hissy fit the night I was going to post and I ended up giving up. I was further delayed by the arrival of a book I have been after for ages. I have checked the war diaries from July 1916 through to beginning of December which covers the Somme period and includes Beaumont Hamel (for which the diary states on 16 November 1916 - casualties numbered 14 Officers and 263 OR. Regarding William Leslie, I didn't come up with anything I'm afraid - the diary is always a bit of a long shot regarding men if they are not officers. Often the ordinary ranks (ORs) are seen throughout the diary if they have been awarded medals for bravery - MM, MC etc.

Another book that might be worth checking is Richard Van Emden's Last Man Standing about Normal Collins who was with the 5th Battalion but was attached to the 6th Battalion and joined them just before Beaumont Hamel and was also in charge of the burial parties after the battle.

As I said in my previous response I do have information that I believe is your William Leslie from the Morayshire Roll - you might want me to send this information via PM to you which is why I haven't posted it here. If you do require the information then post here how you want to proceed with that one.

Marjorie

[seaforths]

Hi Steve,

I am quite some way through the book 'Campaign Reminiscences 1/6th Seaforth Highlanders' - written and published by Capt RT Peel and Capt AH Macdonald. I will let you know if anything pops up in that - quite a few gassing incidents mentioned but not unfortunately, the names to go with them. If you have the extract from the Morayshire Roll then you will also have his service number and it will make it easier to trace him through the National Archive (I found it easier just using surname and service number to find one of grandad's cousins).

My grandfather served along with 5 of his cousins and I agree with you Derek Bird's book is great. I have a platoon photo with grandad in it but neither my mother or I knew where it had been taken and we assumed it was when he was demobbed at Golspie - because there was such a marked difference in his appearance compared to the 2 photos of him when he first joined up. However, I spotted the platoon photo and NCO photo in Derek's book with Capt. AH Mcdonald and the building behind them is identical to grandad's troop photo but a different troop with 2 other officers - so now I know where that was taken. Also the trench raid photo has members of grandad's platoon in it (but not grandad). I managed to contact Derek Bird via the Western Front Association website and he told me that he was given access to those particular photographs by Capt. Macdonald's daughter and the Elgin paper had them with the names added, I think. If he had all the names of the Trench Raid photo he probably would have published them.

I also have a photo of grandad standing with his best pal and I believe his name was Bill - Derek Bird published a photo from IWM of a medal presentation by Maxse and the chap nearest the camera in profile is grandad's friend.

If you have a photo of your grandad and you want to send it via private message - I can check my troop photo and see if he is on that one.

My search will go on a long time with grandad because he was wounded and captured (which I already knew) according to the Morayshire Roll on September 30 1916 at Armentieres, just after the trench raid but confusingly according to the diaries - they were on a train on that date! So I have a long wait until 2014 when the Swiss Red Cross are said to be releasing their POW records to the National Archive.

Best wishes - keep plugging away! I am still trying to ascertain if a spoon found at the site of a casualty clearing station near Poperinghe could have belonged to one of grandad's cousins. It is engraved with SEA. and a 4 digit service number however, when they issued 4 digit service numbers they were not exclusive to one person. Turns out there are 4 Seaforths with the same 4 digit service number including grandad's cousin!

Do please let me know about the photo - I have been able to enlarge the troop photo to A4 size without compromising on the clarity - it would be nice if he was in it - I could forward a copy to you!

Marjorie

[seaforths]

Have scanned trench raid picture am in the process of trying to enlarge it in print but it is very grainy and am working on this...I will compare prints further with troop photo tomorrow.

Marjorie

[RockettNan711]

This is not a true answer, however,  my grandmother's brother, William George Williamson was married to Jeanine Leslie. He also served in WWI for 1/ 6 Battalion Seaforth Highlanders.   I was just recently given some old photos. Both photos have writing on the back.  My grandmother's family lived in Fochabers,  Morayshire,  Scotland.