When did the British Army adopt Khaki ?

[SteveMarsdin]

Good evening,

I've been asked by a French friend: "When did the British Army adopt Khaki as the colour of the uniform ?". He's been given several dates, including 1902 and 1905 but is looking for a definitive answer . I know it's technically a pre WW1 question but he wants the information for work he's doing on WW1 so hopefully the Mods will permit me to ask the question here.

[squirrel]

I stand to be corrected, as always, but was not the last campaign fought in the red jacket the Zulu War 1879 - 1881? IIRC I think that khaki, in various hues,styles and materials, was used for campaign dress after that.

[seaJane]

I stand to be corrected, as always, but was not the last campaign fought in the red jacket the Zulu War 1879 - 1881? IIRC I think that khaki, in various hues,styles and materials, was used for campaign dress after that.

I had always thought that it was the Boer War that triggered the move but the Army website itself it not entirely clear http://www.army.mod.uk/armoured/regiments/8108.aspx.

Stops in middle of post and checks.

The Oxford English Dictionary has:

1884 Health Exhib. Catal. 35/2 The new Khaki cloth, the material adopted by the War Office for the troops on active service.

and a note:

"In India, khaki was used for uniforms by the Guide Corps under Lumsden and Hodson in 1848, by the troops in the Mutiny of 1857, in the Afghan campaigns of 1878–80, etc. It was worn in the Sudan Wars of 1883–98, and esp. by the British troops in South Africa in 1899–. "

[FROGSMILE]

"In India, khaki was used for uniforms by the Guide Corps under Lumsden and Hodson in 1848, by the troops in the Mutiny of 1857, in the Afghan campaigns of 1878–80, etc. It was worn in the Sudan Wars of 1883–98, and esp. by the British troops in South Africa in 1899–. "

This last part is the most accurate explanation. The colour was first adopted in the Indian Service, especially under a British officer called Hodson in 1848. Progressive British Generals such as Wolseley and Roberts later promoted the use of camouflaged uniforms, initially in a both drab grey and khaki in both the Second Anglo/Afghan war of 1878-1880, and the Ashanti Campaign of 1895-1896, but by the latter part of the Anglo-Sudan War of 1898, the emphasis had shifted completely to khaki. In the 2nd Boer War of 1899-1902 the transformation was complete and for the first time the entire British Army was clad wholly in a khaki uniform. In essence it was a phased introduction over 4 decades.

A good explanation of Hodson as the true father of khaki can be seen below:

"Begun in December 1846 the Corps of Guides evolved from an inspired idea of Sir Henry Lawrence, and had (Lt) H. Lumsden as its commandant and (Lt) WSR Hodson as second-in-command. It was just one of Sir Henry Lawrence's many projects in which Hodson was involved. Unusual among fellow officers, Hodson had been a Cambridge graduate upon joining the army and was a keen linguist. Within a few years he was not only commanding the regiment but established himself as the foremost intelligence authority in India. Besides successful campaigns with the regiment, he used his organisational skills to build the famed fort at Mardan in 1854 (the first permanent home of the Guides Corps).

Significantly, among the first duties assigned to Hodson was responsibility for drilling and equipping the new regiment. This also necessitated choosing the regiment's uniform. Accordingly in May 1848 he liaised with his brother - The Rev George Hodson - in England to send all the cloth, rifles and 'Prussian-style' helmets required. With Lumsden's approval Hodson decided upon a lightweight uniform of Khaki colour - or 'Drab' as it was then referred to. This would be comfortable to wear and 'make them invisible in a land of dust'. As a result Hodson and Lumsden had the joint distinction - 150 years ago - of being the first officers to equip a regiment dressed in Khaki. Many view it as the precursor of modern camouflage uniform. (Note: Prior to receiving their drab/khaki uniform from England the Guides had no uniform and only wore their native dresses - as confirmed by L. Trotter's biography on Hodson)

All this is well documented in Hodson's letters and diaries, and was the first reference to their Drab or Khaki uniform (again see Trotter's biography). His brother George wrote soon after: "This was the first of a series of commission s connected with clothing and arming the Guides Corps which was left in my brother's hands and of much interest to him. The colour selected for their uniform was 'drab' as most likely to make them invisible in a land of dust". On sending out 'drab' clothing for 900 men as well as 300 rifled carbines he commented it "seemed scarcely a clerical business". However, the result was satisfactory as the following year WSR Hodson wrote to his brother: "Many thanks for the trouble you have taken about clothing the Guides. Sir Charles Napier says they are the only properly dressed light troops he has seen in India".

Written in 1849 this letter corresponds with the first official reference to their 'mud-coloured' uniform. Also, it should be noted, a number of other regiments followed the example of the Guides and Hodson. However, none had the benefit of receiving 'drab cloth' specially bought and sent from England. Thus they were forced to improvise, dying their white tunics drab/khaki - dust or mud coloured. (In fact, Hodson makes reference to his uniform as 'dirt-coloured').

After commanding the Corps of Guides (Major) Hodson was asked to form his own regiment in May 1857 and again he chose khaki/drab as the colour of his uniform. Having permission to raise an unlimited number of recruits his force expanded considerably.

Surprisingly it was not until 1885 that the entire army in India followed suit. It then took fifteen years before the British military adopted the uniform - referred to as KD, Khaki Drill - to fight the Boer War. Khaki has since, of course, been used by armies throughout the world."

[Piorun]

In my time,uniform was still called khaki-drab by many. Antony

[auchonvillerssomme]

This is long but worth reading, quite amusing in some places. I particularly enjoyed the statement highlighted

OBSERVATIONS.HC Deb 13 March 1882 vol 267 cc781-5 781

§ COLONEL BARNE rose to call attention to the dress of the Army, and said, that, had the Forms of the House permitted, he should have been glad to have moved the following Resolution:— ‘That the present conspicuous colour and tight-fitting Dress of the Army interferes with the efficiency of the soldier and causes the unnecessary loss of many valuable lives.’ He had brought forward the subject last year, when the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War admitted that a change ought to be made in this respect, and suggested that he should bring the matter on when the Estimates for Soldiers' Clothing were discussed. He regretted that he had not done so; but when the time came two-thirds of the House were absent, and he deferred bringing the subject forward, in the hope that it would receive a more satisfactory discussion than it could have obtained last year. Nothing had yet been done in the matter, and he should like to know whether the right hon. Gentleman really intended carrying out what he had said? He did not complain of want of alteration in the uniform of the Army, because those changes had been frequent, and he knew that some of the small alterations which had been made had been of a vexatious character, and had been the cause of great expense to officers. Last year the right hon. Gentleman ordered the stars to be removed from the collars of the officers to their shoulder straps, and this slight change, which did no good whatever, cost each officer in the Guards about £20. The other day he was talking to an old Militia officer, who told him that since the year 1852 his headdress had been changed no fewer than eight times. His (Colonel Barne's) complaint was that the alterations were made in an entirely wrong direction. First, with regard to the colours worn, it had been found by the Emperor Napoleon that the most conspicuous were white, black, gamboge, and then scarlet; thus, the dress of our Army was composed of the most conspicuous colours that could be found. The Rifles, for instance, who ought to be the least visible, were clothed in black, which was the second most conspicuous colour. Moden warfare consisted largely of battles between 782 two lines of skirmishers, each armed with weapons of precision, so that the loss of life was necessarily conspicuous amongst the more conspicuous body. This was proved by the experience of our men in the conflict with the Boers in South Africa, and more recently by the testimony of the Austrians in Herzegovina. Our losses in the Transvaal War were, generally speaking, due to the superior marksmanship of the Boers, and their ability to pick out our men, whereas the English soldiers complained that they could see nothing of the enemy except their heads. It was found that the grey dress of the Rifles was far less conspicuous. That colour was also advocated by Military and Volunteer officers who had tested the point. He also advocated a change of colour on the ground of economy, for the scarlet dye took the oil out of the wool and impaired its durability. He objected to the tight-fitting tunic, because it did not allow the lungs to expand in a natural way when a man began to ascend a hill, or to do any kind of hard work. The regulation trouser was also objectionable, because it gave an immense drag at the knee, especially if it got wet through. He should like to see the British troops dressed in a Norfolk jacket, breeches loose at the knee, and gaiters, with a light helmet, which would not impede the men in their work. He could not move the Resolution of which he had given Notice; but he had ventured to bring the subject under the notice of the right hon. Gentleman, in the hope that he would consider it, and make a move, if possible, in the direction indicated.

§ LORD ELCHO said, he entirely agreed with the hon. and gallant Member who had just sat down (Colonel Barne), that an unnecessary expenditure had been thrown upon officers by the alteration in the collar and shoulder straps, also that soldiers should wear a dress thoroughly adapted to the work they had to do, and did not think he could add anything to what he had said. As to the question of expense entailed by the changes in the uniform, such as altering the mark of rank from the collar to a shoulder strap, he believed the cost to an officer involved by the renewal of uniform in accordance with the changes was about £20, which he was bound to say was a very unnecessary 783 expenditure. As regarded the question of convenience and comfort in the matter of uniform, he was an advocate of easy clothing, as the movements of a soldier should not be constrained by his uniform. The clothing of the hardworking navvies was loose, and they wore a strap under the knee to prevent the dragging of the trousers. He believed it was a fact that if two men, equal in all other respects, were set to walk, one dressed in knickerbockers or a kilt, and the other in the present uniform of a soldier, in course of the day the former would very considerably outwalk the other; and, besides, trousers were not so fitted for work as other descriptions of clothing. The Secretary of State for War was the person really responsible for the efficiency of the uniform; and he wondered how his right hon. Friend the present Secretary of State for War, who was a most kind and indulgent man, and about as sensible a one as he (Lord Elcho) was acquainted with, when he went down every day to his office could bear to see the sentries with trousers so tight at the knees and baggy below, that it seemed impossible for them to go up and down hill without splitting them. The trousers were, in fact, the very reverse of what they ought to be. It was the custom to ridicule the "peg-tops" worn by the French troops; but they were much more sensible than the trousers of the English soldier. Then, in the Cavalry, the clothes were so tight that the men could hardly mount, and only did so at imminent risk of splitting their trousers. He hoped his right hon. Friend would give his attention to these matters, which were by no means trivial, but essential to the welfare and efficiency of the Army, and would see especially that good and efficient leggings were supplied. He would now turn to the question of colour. As regards the colour, the War Office Volunteer Committee had reported in favour of the Volunteers being clothed in red. He had on his right his hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Berkshire (Sir Robert Loyd Lindsay), who was a Member of that Committee. He was a great advocate of scarlet, and, having won his Victoria Cross in red, naturally thought there was no colour like scarlet for the British soldier. But he (Lord Elcho) did not share in that partiality, and he there- 784 fore obtained permission for the regiment he commanded to retain their old grey uniform; and he hoped that, instead of the whole Force being put into red, they would be turned into grey. When the Army went to India, the soldiers were dressed in a uniform khaki or dustcolour, and in the Ashantee campaign the dress of the London Scottish was adopted. At the time of the Edinburgh Volunteer Review, he met Sir Frederick Roberts, after he had been round looking at the troops as they were drawn up, and that officer said— ‘I only wish an order would come out that within five years every Volunteer should be clothed in grey instead of red. I am so struck with grey as being a very much better colour than red.’ He (Lord Elcho) had great hopes that, instead of all the Volunteers becoming red, there was some chance from some thing he had heard—and perhaps his right hon. Friend would tell the House if he was right—that the working dress of the Army would be made grey. He was told that experiments were being made at the present with a view of testing what really was the effect of colour at distances in Woolwich marshes and elsewhere. With the small Army we were able to put into the held these were matters of the greatest importance, for it simply meant whether in action a greater or less proportion of our men were to be hit or not. Recently, wishing to try some experiments with a range finder, and sighting a Martini-Henry rifle, he had a target erected at 2,000 yards distance. Had that target been grey, he would not have seen it at the distance; but he covered it with red Turkey twill, and saw it flaming at the other end like a danger signal on a railway. To give them an idea of the accuracy of the weapon, every shot from that distance would have gone into a space not larger than the Palace Yard, or into a regiment in column. Whether they could see men or not at that distance, would depend on the colour of their dress; and with the view of effecting a saving of life, as well as on the score of convenience and comfort, the question of uniform was one which should be thoroughly gone into.

§ MR. CHILDERS said, he was sure no Member of the House would complain of the character of the remarks which the hon. and gallant Gentleman (Colonel 785 Barne) and his noble Friend (Lord Elcho) had made. He must, however, take exception to one of the remarks of the hon. and gallant Member about small alterations of uniform, and especially about the change made above a year ago in the marks on the collar and shoulder strap denoting rank. For these he (Mr. Childers) was not responsible; but he had clearly informed the House last year that henceforward the Secretary of State would be responsible for changes in uniform, and to this declaration he adhered. As to the particular object of the hon. and gallant Gentleman, he quite agreed in his general position that, putting colour aside, the fighting uniform of a soldier should be as appropriate for fighting as the shooting dress of a sportsman or gamekeeper was for the pursuit of game. In one respect the authorities were hardly responsible for undue tightness of dress, which they did not encourage, and which was the result often of commanding officers wanting their men to look smarter, and tightening their tunics. On the question of colour, he proposed to offer some explanation, when they were in Committee, as part of his general statement. He would only say now, that there was more to consider than the mere question of greater or less visibility, important as that was as a factor in the case.

[Matthew]

Of course Lord Elcho was a leading exponent of the National Rifle Association so would be very aware of the abilities of the latest firearms and the desireability of camouflage!

[centurion]

Khaki means dust in at least one Indian language which is a clear indication of the origin. Some of the earliest khaki uniforms were obtained by boiling cotton whites in tea. Depending on the type of tea you got different shades from grey to a sort of butternut. (The Confederate Army had very much the same experience). I have a feeling that somewhere I've seen a reference to the RN first doing this for the uniforms of landing parties.

[SteveMarsdin]

Good morning All,

Many thanks for all the responses and wealth of information contained in them. I think I'll just e-mail him a link to this thread !

[centurion]

As far back as the 18th century it was customary to uniform some light infantry differently from the regular line units especially if one or more of the following applied:

• They would be fighting in skirmishing order
  
• They would be operating in broken ground
  
• They would be using rifles
  

Britain adopted green (even before the 95th was formed) as did many German states. Other countries adopted grey. The first major use of brown appears to be the reformed Portuguese Caçadores (1808) followed later by French mountain troops in the Peninsular. The choice of brown was made because the parched Iberian hillsides had little greenery. Some Spanish units also wore brown but this appears to have been because of a shortage of cloth of any other colour. Contrary to some films and TV programmes the predominant colour of the British Army in this campaign was also brown and not red but this was because of the poor quality red dye used which quickly became a sort of muddy reddish brown colour. Only the officers wearing coats made from better quality cloth stayed brilliantly scarlet (fortunately Napoleon, being very conservative in terms of military technology, had set his face against having French troops armed with rifles otherwise snipers would have had a number of field days).

In the 1830s some Belgian volunteer rifle units adopted brown uniforms (notably the Liege battalion).

The adoption in India has already been described in previous posts. The first British based unit to adopt a form of brown as their standard uniform (as opposed to something used in a specific campaign) may well have been the 5th Glamorgan Rifle Volunteers raised in 1859 at Penllergaer (disbanded in 1872.) who wore a uniform of "greyish brown" with brown (leather) accoutrements.

[1st AIF]

In my time of service in the 70's the Australian Army had a colour for its vehicles called "olive drab", which would have been around many years.

We joked about our brigade commander Brig Drabsch that his wife's name was Olive. Don't think it was though.

[centurion]

In my time of service in the 70's the Australian Army had a colour for its vehicles called "olive drab", which would have been around many years.

We joked about our brigade commander Brig Drabsch that his wife's name was Olive. Don't think it was though.

Olive drab as a military colour is originally an American concept introduced at the beginning of WW2 (about the same time that they ditched the Brodie). They adopted a slightly darker version of the colour towards the end of the war.

[auchonvillerssomme]

reading through Frogsmiles post the use of the word 'drab' was being used well before WW2, in 1848 - 'With Lumsden's approval Hodson decided upon a lightweight uniform of Khaki colour - or 'Drab' as it was then referred to.'

[NigelS]

This report from The Times of March 29th, 1883 on the deliberations of the 'Colour Committee' is interesting in that its recommendation was for 'gray' - specifically that then used for the uniforms of the '3rd Devon Volunteers' - to be adopted. Subsequent reports on army uniforms, particularly in the Sudan, where, amongst others, its issue to the Australian Infantry is mentioned, do give 'Khakee' as the new colour; so either the shade of 'gray' used for the uniforms of the 3rd Devon Volunteers was more akin to that of the Khaki we know today, 'Khakee', like its spelling, has changed its shade over the years (considering the words origins, not improbable), or there was a subsequent change of heart by the authorities in that a slightly different colour from that originally decided on be adopted.

THE COLOUR OF ARMY UNIFORM

THe report of the Colour Committee appointed by the Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief to consider and report what colour, suitable for military uniform, is least conspicuous, was published yesterday as a Parliamentary paper. The Instructions given to the Committee were as follows:-

"Having regard to the increased range of rifled arms and the consequent exposure to troops to fire at great distances, that exposure of troops to fire at great distances, that exposure continuing and being enhanced as they approach the enemy, it is desirable that Her Majesty's forces on active service should wear uniform of the colour asscertained to be the least conspicuous.

"It is observed that the use of a neutral colour - Khakee - is general in India, and at the same time that at least four colours are generally worn by Her Majesty's troops elsewhere, each of these (except, perhaps, in the case of the green worn by the Rifles) having been adopted without reference to their greater or less visibility.

"It appears, under these circumstances, desirable that, in the first instance, before the question is discussed with reference to other considerations, a scientific inquiry should take place as to the comparative visibility of different colours suitable for military uniform in the field.

"His Royal Highness has recommended to the Secretary of State that two or more persons of undoubted scientific authority on the question of this character should be invited to co-operate with a small number of officers with a view to carry out any practical experiments which may be necessary for the complete discussion and utilization of known facts on this subject.

"A committee composed as follows:- President. - Lieutenat-General Sir. G.J. Wolseley, G.C.B.,G.C.M.G.; members - Major-General R.B. Hawley, O.B.; Major-General J.H.F. Elkington, O.B.; Director of Clothing - has been appointed to consider this question.

"Professors Abel and Stokes will co-operate with the Committee, and as the utility of the enquiry will depend upon the nature of the questions submitted to these gentlemen, it is recommended that this should be arranged with one or both of them beforehand.

"The Committee will cause experiments to be made as to the visibility of various colours, and the relative merits of - scarlet, green, blue, khakee, and gray (warm or cold shade); and report what colour suitable for military uniform is under all the ordinary conditions of war, the least conspicuous.

"Supposing the colour found to be the least conspicuous is not scarlet, green, or blue, does it possess such advantages over those colours that the Committee would recommend its general adoption.

"It is recommended that the practical experiments necessary to test the various colours had better be carried out at Aldershot.

"C.H. ELLICE, A.G"

The following is the report of the Committee:-

"On the termination of the experiments by the scientific members of the Committee and on the rendering of their report, the Committee desire to lay before the Secretary of State the conclusion to which they have come, after careful consideration of that report.

"In accordance with the instructions of his Royal Highness the Field-Marshal Commanding-in-Chief, at the first meeting of the Committee Professors Abel & Stokes were consulted on the best means of carrying out the scientific enquiry as to the comparative visibility of different colours suitable for military uniform in the field. A detailed account of these experiments will be found in their report, which is submitted herewith.

"It may be briefly stated that aseries of experiments were carried out under varing conditions of weather, atmosphere, surroundings, and background - the object being to make them as exhaustive as possible. Various members of the Committe were present during these experiments, which were under the immediate suprintendence of Professors Abel and Stokes.

"The result was to eleminate all the colours at present used in the dress of the Army, and the glaring conspicuousness of white and scarlet was at once evident.

"On the other hand, the neutral colours, more particularly the Indian 'Khakee' and certain volunteer grays, were indistinct even at short distances, and, in comparison with the Army colours, all but invisible at long ranges.

"The question was in the end narrowed down to a shade of gray, which, besides its character of invisibility, stands exposure to rain and sun without fading.

"The Committee recommend that this gray (now worn by the 3rd Devon Volunteers) should be adopted as the service dress of the Army.

"As it would, however, be unadvisable to break entirely with the traditions attached to the red uniform of the British Army, the Committee recommend that red or scarlet (and blue or green for corps wearing those colurs) should be retained for full dress; but that on all other occasions the gray should take the place of the present undress. By this arrangement the Committe think the advantges, as recruiting, to be gained from an attractive uniform will be retained, while at the same time men and officers will become familiar with a colour which, there can be no question, is the best for active service. The Committee consider that the greatcoats and trousers shouldbe of this gray colour, and that a gray helmet cover should also be issued.

"Intimately connected with the question of the colour of the uniform is that of pipeclayed belts and white haversacks. White, under all but ver exceptional circumstances, is the most conspicuous colour of all, and it would avail little to substitute gray for scarlet if the white accoutrements are retained. by the use of an umber colouring (of a similar nature to pipeclay) the belts may be made nearly invisible at a distance, and its employment permits their colour being changed at will.

"This colouring, as prepared by Professor Abel, has been practically tried and found to answer remarkably well. The Committee therefore recommend its general adoption throughout the Army, the umber belts to be worn at all times on active service.

"The haversack, instead of being of white material, should be of the same colour as the belts.

"No practical test was made as to the conspicuousness of the shining metal portions of the soldier's uniform and accroutements, but it is evident that in sunlight these would attract the eye, and so weaken the advantage gained by the use of gray uniform and brown belts. The Committee therefore recommend that all ornaments, buttons, &c., of the gray uniform should be bronze, and not polished; and that on active service a brown lacquer should be applied to the bayonets, metal scabbards, and all other bright portions of the accoutrements.

"G.J. WOLSELEY, A.G., President

"R.B. HAWLEY, D.A.G.

"JOHN ELKINGTON, D.A.G.

"GEORGE D. RAMSAY, Director of Clothing.

"F.A. Abel.

"G.G.STOKES.

"H.C. REYNOLDS, Major, D.A.Q.M.G., Secretary

"July 25, 1882."

The report of experiments by the scientific members of the Committee is addded, and an appendix giving details of the experiments.

Another piece from The Times of February 18th, 1884 indicates a general dissatisfaction with Khaki in India, although this appears to be due to material (cotton v. serge) type rather than colour:

The Commander-in-Chief in India lately called for reports from officers commanding corps and batteries upon the subject of Khaki clothing. The condemnation of it for Summer wear from British soldiers in time of peace was almost unanimous, and the Commander-in-Chief has in consequence decided to re-introduce white clothing.

leading on from that aspect, the existence of a rearguard action in relation to uniform colour is apparent in this exchange in the Commons in 1885 (Hansard 1885 HC Deb 27 July 1885 vol 300 cc67-176 Commons Sitting - Army Estimates):

SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOT ...But he rose more particularly to ask the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War (Mr. W.H. Smith) whether he was determined to preserve red as the colour of the clothing of the Army of this country? He was told that the cotton khakee which had been issued to their soldiers had been a perfect failure. He was told, too, that cotton khakee had been issued instead of serge khakee, to the great detriment of the health of the troops using it. Cotton khakee, he was informed, was very bad material for troops on service, especially abroad. What was wanted was clothing which would absorb the perspiration, which cotton khakee failed to do. He hoped that red serge jackets would be re-issued to their men, because, in his opinion, it would be infinitely better to keep to their old colour than to resort to any other colour. A red jacket might become stained, but it still retained a red mark in it; and whenever a red line was seen advancing it was well known that it was a line of English soldiers. It was the opinion of a large number of officers, who knew most about these things, that red clothing was the very best that they could possibly have for their Army. He mentioned that because, in these times, it was very often found that, unless questions were brought forward very prominently, the country was involved in changes at which it was exceedingly annoyed.

THE SURVEYOR GENERAL OF ORDNANCE (Mr. GUY DAWNAY) ... With regard to the observations which had fallen from his hon. and gallant Friend the Member for West Sussex (Sir Walter B. Barttelot), he had to say that there was no disposition at all to change the colour of the uniform of the Army from the good old British colour of red, except in hot climates. In the last campaign it was decided that, for various reasons, khakee cotton was the best material for hot climates. Since he had been at the War Office he had looked into the question himself, because he confessed he had a strong prejudice in favour of serge instead of cotton. He found that the General Commanding in Egypt and the principal medical officers united in preferring khakee cotton to any other form of material for hot climates, provided that it was worn over flannel. He was not, however, quite satisfied, and should be glad, if it were possible, to make some further trials of khakee serge.

SIR FREDERICK FITZ-WYGRAM said, he was glad to hear, and he was sure the great body of the officers of the Army would be pleased to find, that it was not intended to give up the old colour of red. It was thoroughly admitted by all military men that the great point was not so much the colour, as the distinction of colour, by which the nationality of an Army was known. He should prefer to see every British soldier wear a red jacket. In war it was absolutely essential that the nationality of each individual soldier should be known at once. The argument against red was that it was more visible than any other colour, and that in these days of proficiency in rifle shooting it was not advisable to make their men more conspicuous targets than they need be. He believed there was a great fallacy in that argument. When a line was advancing at 1,000 yards it was always in skirmishing order, and he thought that however much men were practised in musketry they would shoot at the advancing line and not at any

individual. As the line got nearer, of course the men were drawn closer together; when it got to within 600 yards it was so near as to be immaterial whether the colour was red or khakee or any other. For that reason he thought they might safely adhere to red. Now, with regard to the question of serge or cotton. He had been in India a good many years, and he had found that the principal advantage of cotton over serge was that it could be washed as often as was desired. In hot climates men perspired a good deal, and serge would not stand the constant washing which British soldiers required of it. He had always worn serge; but for the reason he had assigned he thought cotton cloth answered better for the private soldier.

NigelS

[Muerrisch]

interesting erudite thread but was the original query about drab-mixture serge, intro. in service dress 1902 by AO 8 1902

or was it khaki as in khaki drill, which pre-dated it.

[auchonvillerssomme]

I thought that that the terms were interchangeable but it appears from what you are saying that drab was used for serge and khaki for drill.

I also just found this reference in part of the instructions for Naval dress worn by officers ashore outside the United Kingdom. Trousers.—Drab serge or khaki drill.

[FROGSMILE]

interesting erudite thread but was the original query about drab-mixture serge, intro. in service dress 1902 by AO 8 1902

or was it khaki as in khaki drill, which pre-dated it.

The question was clear - "When did the British Army adopt Khaki as the colour of the uniform" and it got an equally clear answer. There was no mention of Serge or Drill by the OP, just colouration.

[centurion]

Take extreme care with the comments of Sir Walter B. Bartelot bt. He had an ulterior motive in pushing British Wool over imported cotton as (as various biographies reveal) he was the spokesman for various British agricultural interests. His conflation of Khaki with Serge or Cotton was at best disingenuous and at worst an attempt to mislead. Serge at the time was usually made from wool but it could be made from silk or even cotton. His comment about serge being superior as it absorbed perspiration is an echo of of the old, long exploded, misconception that many illnesses (including Cholera) were caused by the chilling effect of the evaporation of sweat (hence things like cholera belts to keep your stomach warm!)

His comment about the scarlet uniform is redolent of the old idea "shout Huzzah at Johnny Foreigner and he'll run [they don't like it up 'em]" but was one reason why the French retained the blue jacket and red trousers until after 1914. I note his speech is all "I have been told" without any sourcing

His service with the Royal Dragoons had ended 30 years before his speech and AFAIK he never served abroad.

[daggers]

A fictional though authentic account of the Dardanelles campaign from a Naval stance recounted how naval personnel prepared to serve ashore by soaking their white summer uniforms in Condy's fluid. I understand that the base for this was Potassium permanganate.

D

[Black 8]

I stand to be corrected, as always, but was not the last campaign fought in the red jacket the Zulu War 1879 - 1881? IIRC I think that khaki, in various hues,styles and materials, was used for campaign dress after that.

Quite possibly the last campaign, but the last battle in red coats is widely held to have been the battle of Ginnis in 1885 during the Sudan expedition against the Mahdists. This was allegedly an early example of "information operations" , designed to prove that the British had really arrived. Hence the temporary replacement of the new and practical khaki with the more traditional red coat, which the locals still associated with the British Army.

I also recall reading that some elements of the British contingent in the later stages of the camapign (culminating at Omdurman) apparently also opted to wear their scarlet "Home Service" jackets - specifically the Maxim gun teams.

Anyway, I digress. Sorry!

Dave

[Muerrisch]

The question was clear - "When did the British Army adopt Khaki as the colour of the uniform" and it got an equally clear answer. There was no mention of Serge or Drill by the OP, just colouration.

so if 'khaki' means dust, and is a colour [like 'pink' the flower

, stone and cornflower] then desert/india/hot weather gear is being discussed.

the 1902 SD was not, as we know "khaki".

Was it?

so we are not discussing serge or are we?

A fictional though authentic account of the Dardanelles campaign from a Naval stance recounted how naval personnel prepared to serve ashore by soaking their white summer uniforms in Condy's fluid. I understand that the base for this was Potassium permanganate.

D

and the Royal Scots Greys dyed their greys similarly ........ neighhhh!

[FROGSMILE]

so if 'khaki' means dust, and is a colour [like 'pink' the flower

, stone and cornflower] then desert/india/hot weather gear is being discussed.

the 1902 SD was not, as we know "khaki".

Was it?

so we are not discussing serge or are we?

The colour description 'khaki' was used for all forms of cloth of that hue for the Army and certainly appears on all the ledgers both current and past that I have handled as a member of G4 staff. The OP asked nothing about cloth, but merely when 'khaki' was adopted. He has been told.

[Muerrisch]

Thats it then

[centurion]

The colour description 'khaki' was used for all forms of cloth of that hue for the Army and certainly appears on all the ledgers both current and past that I have handled as a member of G4 staff. The OP asked nothing about cloth, but merely when 'khaki' was adopted. He has been told.

No he hasn't - for any meaningful answer one has to define

• What do we mean by kahki (various hues have been given that name)
  
• How do we define the British Army? Does the Indian Army count?
  
• What do we mean by adopted? The first unit to wear it or when red was abandoned in its favour?
  

This is not a simple '23rd of August 1859' type of answer and discussion and explanation is required which may cover side issues which are well illustrated in the parliamentary extracts. Who are you to close down discussion?

[Muerrisch]

No he hasn't - for any meaningful answer one has to define

• What do we mean by kahki (various hues have been given that name)
  
• How do we define the British Army? Does the Indian Army count?
  
• What do we mean by adopted? The first unit to wear it or when red was abandoned in its favour?
  

This is not a simple '23rd of August 1859' type of answer and discussion and explanation is required which may cover side issues which are well illustrated in the parliamentary extracts. Who are you to close down discussion?

The little ? above my head was caused by the mention of 1902, and I wondered if the reference was to "drab". Until I learned better, I always thought the 1902 was khaki, and I suspect others do/did.