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Conor Dodd

Was he buried ?

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Conor Dodd

Along with my great great uncles medals is his Sgt. stripes but also his dog-tag. He was K.I.A. on the 1st of July 1916 and his name is on the Theipval Memorial but since his dog-tag and stripes (also a flag of the maid of Ireland) were sent back to his wife does this mean his body was found buried and then his grave later distroyed. Any views on this ?

Conor :D

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Patrick Mooney

Conor,

This would lead me to beleive that his body was indeed found and buried by his comrades, who would have returned his dogtag, flag and stripes, but that his body and grave was later lost during the subsequent years of combat over the same ground.

I have read accounts by both comrades and those tasked with recovering the dead of just such a thing occuring, most often when the burial is done by comrades who have access to home addresses for those killed.

Patrick

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egbert

Conor,

I guess I encountered the same story, when researching my Grandfather: the complete dogtag plus all personal items, both from the trunk and what he had in his uniform pockets were sent to my Grandmother. He was buried next to his foxhole by his comrades . May 1st , 1918. After the war he was relocated to a CWGC site in the town of Merville. He showed up as an unknown soldier! Later my research was reckognized and only 3 years ago, the grave was changed to a personalized one.

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Conor Dodd

Thanks for the replies I would think the fact that so many items from him were send home that somebody would have had time to take them all off instead of just ripping of the dog-tag could it be possible that he was killed near his own trench or on just leaving it (the area we are talking about was supposed to be taken on the 1st of July but was taken later by the A&S Highlanders) anybody want to guess where it's an easy one !!! mabey we should have a weekly quiz on the forum :P

Conor :)

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CROONAERT

Conor,

Any idea on the time taken between your g.g.uncle's death and his wife receiving the items?

Dave.

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Conor Dodd

I don't know Dave I haven't found out yet they were all with his medals Christmas 1914 tin etc. everthing was with it except for the Death Plaque. Does anyone know if the people collecting dog-tags would have taken a certain one (I have the circular one) or did they just grab either ?

Conor :D

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Paul Reed

Out of interest, what does it say on his dog tag, Conor?

Personally, I think you will find the tag was taken from his body by a comrade and handed in; the tag you have may have been an earlier one, he kept for a souvenir. Before an attack soldiers would often leave items they wanted sent home at the transport lines in their large packs - if a soldier was KIA these packs were searched and items then sent back to the next of kin.

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Conor Dodd
Out of interest, what does it say on his dog tag, Conor?

Personally, I think you will find the tag was taken from his body by a comrade and handed in; the tag you have may have been an earlier one, he kept for a souvenir. Before an attack soldiers would often leave items they wanted sent home at the transport lines in their large packs - if a soldier was KIA these packs were searched and items then sent back to the next of kin.

have another pair of first world war Dog-Tags to a D.O.W. casualty and it is the same as the circular on that. On the edge (going around in a circal) is 11484 Sgt. W. Dodd and in the middle is R.C. and R.D.F. (there is also a hole for the string or whatever to go through it. The thought about it being in his pack is very possible as they could have all been been put into his 1914 tin also with it was one of the army postcards (I am well etc.) bit of a mystery really. :huh:

Conor :D

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CROONAERT

Conor.

In July 1916 ,British soldiers were only issued with one official disc (red fibre),although many had others unofficially made.This single disc had ,by mid/late 1915 , replaced the aluminium 1906 pattern disc (which was sometimes still worn in conjunction with the new fibre disc). The 2 fibre (1 round and red,the other lozenge shaped and green/brown)discs weren't issued until September 1916 (A.O.287,1916).

Dave.

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Conor Dodd

Dave,

I have just the one circular one to him so does this mean that there was no means of identifying him after the ground was taken because his wife had his only (perhaps) dog-tag.

Conor :D

P.S. It is the red fibre type dog-tag

Edited by Conor Dodd

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CROONAERT
Dave,

I have just the one circular one to him so does this mean that there was no means of identifying him after the ground was taken because his wife had his only (perhaps) dog-tag.

Conor :D

P.S. It is the red fibre type dog-tag

Conor.

Unless he had any other disc (such as a private purchase wrist tag,etc.)on his person,then probably not.

It was because of this kind of scenario that pairs of tags were issued in the future.

Dave.

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Conor Dodd

Perhaps he might have had 2 it is hard to say and mabey one day our family will have a grave to go and visit.I really hope so anyway speaking of that as a matter of interest what is the numbers (e.g. 1 in every 20 you know what I mean) of first world war bodies being identified.

Conor

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CROONAERT
Perhaps he might have had 2 it is hard to say and mabey one day our family will have a grave to go and visit.I really hope so anyway speaking of that as a matter of interest what is the numbers (e.g. 1 in every 20 you know what I mean) of first world war bodies being identified.

Conor

Do you mean bodies that are found now , or do you want to know the ratio between soldiers with known graves compared to those without known graves? (Roughly speaking,this latter ratio is 50/50 (British and Empire troops) -584,967 identified, 529,808 on memorials to the missing (1988))

Dave

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CROONAERT
Perhaps he might have had 2 it is hard to say

Conor.

Thinking about it ,he probably did have 2 (possibly 3 ,if he had a "private purchase one as well). With him being a 1914 veteran (I take it that this was the case? - Xmas box and all that?),he would have been issued with the aluminium 1906 patt. tag and ,later ,also given the red fibre one.Chances are, that he was one of those who chose to wear both (most did). this means that there is a possibility that the aluminium one remained on his body.

I wouldn't hold much hope that this has survived ,if I was you,but the 1906 pattern does weather the years better than the fibre one ,so I suppose there is a very slim chance that it may turn up one day!

Dave.

PS. If you are interested,send me an email and I'll send you a scan of the "evolution" of the British Dog-tag 1906-1918.

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Conor Dodd

He joined the army in 1910 I think it was so he would have had an early dog-tag. Thinking about the Sgt. stripes that came with a (about) lifesize photo taken of him before he went to the front shows him wearing the same type. (anyone know if there was different types or where they just all the same?) I will drop you an E-Mail Dave and it would be brilliant if you could send that on.

Conor :D

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Joe Sweeney

Conor,

The material used to make the stripes of chevrons came in two basic varieties. The most common was the standard herring bone weave that continued past WWII. The other less common type consisted of a cross hatch pattern of material.

Joe Sweeney

Also Dave could you forward me your evolution of the ID DISC 1906 to 1918. More info the better and much appreciated.

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CROONAERT

Will do ,Joe.

Could I askyou to send me an email to my other address: charliem@croonaertwood.fsnet.co.uk please? (I can't send images for some reason from the "email" section on this forum,so will need yours (and Conor's for that matter) email addresses to be able to send you the info.).

I'm also away "at the front" untill Friday,so will send it next weekend.

Dave.

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