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risca_boy

Zephaniah Orman, 4th Bn Middlesex Regt

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risca_boy

I have a photo showing 2 brothers who were killed in WW1, Reuben and Zeph ORMAN.

post-73561-0-78776900-1311539952.jpg

I've traced Reuben but can't find any trace of Zeph apart from his name on 2 memorials, one in the synagogue Risca Rd, Newport which states he was in the Middlesex Regt, the other in Pontywaun Grammar School, Risca without any regiment.

I can't find a Zephaniah Orman on any birth register, census or military records.

From the CWGC site Reuben details are

Name: ORMAN, REUBEN

Initials: R

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Serjeant

Regiment/Service: South Wales borderers

Unit Text: 1st Bn.

Age: 26

Date of Death: 31/10/1914

Service No: 9311

Additional info: Son of Mr. S. Orman, of 143, Mill St., Liverpool. Brother of 13052 Pte H Orman.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Mem Ref: Panel 22.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Pte H Ormans details are

Name: ORMAN

Initials: H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Middlesex Regiment

Unit Text: 4th Bn.

Age: 22

Date of Death: 14/10/1914

Service No: 13052

Additional info: Son of Simon Orman, of 21, Gladstone St., Cross Keys, Mon. Brother of 9311 Sjt, R Orman.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Mem Ref: VI. C. 12.

Cemetery: VIEILLE-CHAPELLE NEW MILITARY CEMETERY, LACOUTURE

It is possible that Zeph is 'H' and been mistranscribed

There are a couple of other oddities. The address for the father Simon Orman is different even though there was only 2 weeks between the deaths.

Does anyone have any idea who 'H' is?

There was a son Jepha aged 9 on the1901 census which would tie in with 'H's' age of 22 when killed. It appears though that Jepha was given the name Jasapo Chvi Orman when born.

I can't find Reuben or Jepha / Jasapo in 1911.

Neither can I find the MIC for 'H' on the TNA or Ancestry sites.

Any help would be great.

Steve

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KevinBattle

Whilst I agree the deaths were 2 weeks apart, perhaps the Family Verification Forms came through at different times, and in the interim, the family had moved from one address to the other?

There is obviously a clear link between the two CWGC entries, and if the two brothers had slightly different Names in English to Yiddish, that might account for the discrepancy..

You could probably explain by alliteration

Zeph and Jo Seph.....

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IPT

I've found an MIC for L/13052 Pte Harry Normand, 4th Middlesex. K in A.

Date of entry 14/08/1914.

I'm guessing this is him?

Name:Harry Normand

Birth Place:Nantyglo, Monmouth

Death Date:14 Oct 1914

Death Location:France & Flanders

Enlistment Location:Neath, Glamorganshire

Rank:Private

Regiment:Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)

Battalion:4th Battalion

Number:L/13052

Type of Casualty:Killed in action

Theatre of War:Western European Theatre

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IPT

Also named in De Ruvigny's as son of Simon Normand of Cross Keys, Monmouth.

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risca_boy

Kevin & IPT thanks for your swift replies.

So it appears he was called Jasapo Chvi when born, known as Jepha aged 9, Zephaniah in school and enlisted as Harry Normand. :)

i've just found Harry Normand aged 20 in 1911 - he is a Private in 3RD BATTALION (DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE OWN) MIDDLESEX REGIMENT, LEBONG, INDIA

Where did the information come from for Du Ruvigny's? I thought that also came from the family same as the CWGC details? I wonder why they are different?

Thanks again

Steve

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yjaff

Hi

I think there could be a possibility that there was a misprint and he could be the illusive "H" you are looking for. To find out you could have a look at the local newspaper at the time and see if the archives have the same picture, if it does you may be able to read more and see if the same name continues or the mistake is a one off. it would also be an opportunity to find out more about them. About the fathers change in address you could check the census and then the one after that to see if they match?

Hope this helps at all :)

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risca_boy

Hi Yana

Thanks for the tips.

I'll go to the local Reference Library to follow up the newspaper photos and see if there is a write up.I also need to check the school records for Zephaniah.

Regards

Steve

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