risca_boy Posted 24 July , 2011 Share Posted 24 July , 2011 I have a photo showing 2 brothers who were killed in WW1, Reuben and Zeph ORMAN. I've traced Reuben but can't find any trace of Zeph apart from his name on 2 memorials, one in the synagogue Risca Rd, Newport which states he was in the Middlesex Regt, the other in Pontywaun Grammar School, Risca without any regiment. I can't find a Zephaniah Orman on any birth register, census or military records. From the CWGC site Reuben details are Name: ORMAN, REUBEN Initials: R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Serjeant Regiment/Service: South Wales borderers Unit Text: 1st Bn. Age: 26 Date of Death: 31/10/1914 Service No: 9311 Additional info: Son of Mr. S. Orman, of 143, Mill St., Liverpool. Brother of 13052 Pte H Orman. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Mem Ref: Panel 22. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL Pte H Ormans details are Name: ORMAN Initials: H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Middlesex Regiment Unit Text: 4th Bn. Age: 22 Date of Death: 14/10/1914 Service No: 13052 Additional info: Son of Simon Orman, of 21, Gladstone St., Cross Keys, Mon. Brother of 9311 Sjt, R Orman. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Mem Ref: VI. C. 12. Cemetery: VIEILLE-CHAPELLE NEW MILITARY CEMETERY, LACOUTURE It is possible that Zeph is 'H' and been mistranscribed There are a couple of other oddities. The address for the father Simon Orman is different even though there was only 2 weeks between the deaths. Does anyone have any idea who 'H' is? There was a son Jepha aged 9 on the1901 census which would tie in with 'H's' age of 22 when killed. It appears though that Jepha was given the name Jasapo Chvi Orman when born. I can't find Reuben or Jepha / Jasapo in 1911. Neither can I find the MIC for 'H' on the TNA or Ancestry sites. Any help would be great. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 24 July , 2011 Share Posted 24 July , 2011 Whilst I agree the deaths were 2 weeks apart, perhaps the Family Verification Forms came through at different times, and in the interim, the family had moved from one address to the other? There is obviously a clear link between the two CWGC entries, and if the two brothers had slightly different Names in English to Yiddish, that might account for the discrepancy.. You could probably explain by alliteration Zeph and Jo Seph..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 24 July , 2011 Share Posted 24 July , 2011 I've found an MIC for L/13052 Pte Harry Normand, 4th Middlesex. K in A. Date of entry 14/08/1914. I'm guessing this is him? Name:Harry Normand Birth Place:Nantyglo, Monmouth Death Date:14 Oct 1914 Death Location:France & Flanders Enlistment Location:Neath, Glamorganshire Rank:Private Regiment:Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment) Battalion:4th Battalion Number:L/13052 Type of Casualty:Killed in action Theatre of War:Western European Theatre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 24 July , 2011 Share Posted 24 July , 2011 Also named in De Ruvigny's as son of Simon Normand of Cross Keys, Monmouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risca_boy Posted 24 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2011 Kevin & IPT thanks for your swift replies. So it appears he was called Jasapo Chvi when born, known as Jepha aged 9, Zephaniah in school and enlisted as Harry Normand. i've just found Harry Normand aged 20 in 1911 - he is a Private in 3RD BATTALION (DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE OWN) MIDDLESEX REGIMENT, LEBONG, INDIA Where did the information come from for Du Ruvigny's? I thought that also came from the family same as the CWGC details? I wonder why they are different? Thanks again Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjaff Posted 30 July , 2011 Share Posted 30 July , 2011 Hi I think there could be a possibility that there was a misprint and he could be the illusive "H" you are looking for. To find out you could have a look at the local newspaper at the time and see if the archives have the same picture, if it does you may be able to read more and see if the same name continues or the mistake is a one off. it would also be an opportunity to find out more about them. About the fathers change in address you could check the census and then the one after that to see if they match? Hope this helps at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risca_boy Posted 31 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 July , 2011 Hi Yana Thanks for the tips. I'll go to the local Reference Library to follow up the newspaper photos and see if there is a write up.I also need to check the school records for Zephaniah. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa1 Posted 12 March , 2012 Share Posted 12 March , 2012 orman brothers_cross keys http://www.mw.shaunmcguire.co.uk/cross%20keys.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now