Rockdoc Posted 20 July , 2011 Share Posted 20 July , 2011 I visited Beamish Museum last Saturday and found this gun in the Redman Park area. Is it a real WW1 gun or has it been cobbled together? It's not in brialliant condition, unfortunately. The barrel looks OK but the carriage is in a bit of trouble. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 20 July , 2011 Share Posted 20 July , 2011 It looks pretty good to me. Not really the sort of thing that you could cobble together down at the local scrapyard. Personally I would say that it was the real thing, just missing several essential parts. I am sure that someone will come along with a far better and more knowledgeable answer, before too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 20 July , 2011 Share Posted 20 July , 2011 In the absence of a better answer. I have just been looking in my 'trusty' Harmsworth Universal Encyclopedias and see that it has some similarities to a cross between a 60 pdr. mark 1, and a 6 in. mark XIX? or possibly it is a captured German piece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 20 July , 2011 Share Posted 20 July , 2011 I assume that where it says on the plaque "Hoodge Day" it should read "Hooge Day", probably some over zealous sign writer!!? The 2nd DLI were heavily involved at Hooge on the 9th August, 1915, having 12 officers and 500 men put out of action. I seem to think that 'Hooge 1915' is one of the Durhams' battle honours for WW1 and of course this would fit in with Beamish which is right in the heart of DLI country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 July , 2011 Share Posted 20 July , 2011 It looks pretty good to me. Not really the sort of thing that you could cobble together down at the local scrapyard. Personally I would say that it was the real thing, just missing several essential parts. Like a recoil mechanism, a proper trail, some means of elevation most of the breech mechanism (is it a Krupp sliding breech?)No you couldn't cobble it together at the local scrapyard but it does look like a job lot of bits of artillery cobbled together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 20 July , 2011 Share Posted 20 July , 2011 It might be the rare, elusive Scrapple Gun. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 20 July , 2011 Share Posted 20 July , 2011 It might be the rare, elusive Scrapple Gun. That's the one, I knew I'd seen it somewhere before :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 July , 2011 Share Posted 20 July , 2011 Could be the ultimate Scrapyard Challenge, the winning team is the one that manages to build a gun first and obliterate the opposing teams. There would be a certain incentive to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Looks like a naval gun on an improvised carriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 21 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2011 I did wonder whether it was a spare barrel assembly on a transporting carriage as it seemed too flimsy to withstand firing stresses. It looks too short and light, too. If the barrel was much further forward it would have overbalanced the carriage but, as it stands, the breech would have buried itself in the ground as it recoiled. Unfortunately, there's nothing about this on the museum website. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Could be the ultimate Scrapyard Challenge, the winning team is the one that manages to build a gun first and obliterate the opposing teams. There would be a certain incentive to win. What an excellent concept, this could become very popular depending upon the make up of the opposing teams. Come to think of it, I could soon draw up a considerable list of suitable candidates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Unfortunately, there's nothing about this on the museum website. Keith This says it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Looks like a naval gun on an improvised carriage. With no means of elevation? Not even a trunnion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 What an excellent concept, this could become very popular depending upon the make up of the opposing teams. Come to think of it, I could soon draw up a considerable list of suitable candidates "It doesn't really matter whom you put upon the list For they'd none of them be missed, they'd none of them be missed" W S Gilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Keith Information from North East War Memorial Project http://www.newmp.org...?contentId=6516 150mm Krupp pm cannon mounted on a carrier. The Gun was captured from the Germans during 1915 Battle of Hooge in which the Durham Light Infantry were heavily involved. i think it may have been captured with a few bits missing !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Based on this it would seem that it's the tube of a Krupp 15cm K16 on a "cart" which has lost its front wheels (which were mounted on a pivoting axle). Not a complete artillery piece. The cart was used for transportation to the firing site where the tube would be winched onto its carriage. See page 120 of Jäger's German Artillery of WW1 for photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 21 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Thank you, Ian. It's certainly damaged but whether that was during the action or afterwards is impossible to say. The gear ring on the small winch to the right of the breech has a section missing, for example. I found a picture that may show a similar gun here. If I'm right (the carriage is somewhat different) the Memorial Gun has lost quite a bit of its structure. Looking up Hooge Day, I found that it varies by the regiment involved. The Liverpool Scottish celebrate it on 21st June but the 2nd Battalion DLI celebrate it on 9th August. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Thank you, Ian. It's certainly damaged but whether that was during the action or afterwards is impossible to say. The gear ring on the small winch to the right of the breech has a section missing, for example. I found a picture that may show a similar gun here. If I'm right (the carriage is somewhat different) the Memorial Gun has lost quite a bit of its structure. Looking up Hooge Day, I found that it varies by the regiment involved. The Liverpool Scottish celebrate it on 21st June but the 2nd Battalion DLI celebrate it on 9th August. Keith See my earlier post. The gun (tube only) in the OP is not on its carriage it's on a transportation cart which is missing its front wheels. It could never have been fired from it (and was never intended to be). The photo you've linked to shows the tube reunited with its carriage and in firing condition. The OP gun may have been overrun when attempting to retreat which would also explain the absence of the sliding breech block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Keith My old Gunner Regiment held a Beating the Retreat in the park a couple of years ago. There were many mutterings fabout what was it, how did it recoil, how would it fire etc etc. Spare barrel on a carriage I think was the main conclusion, though one thought was it was the next generation gun for the RA after the expenditure review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arie Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Hello, if this gun was captured in 1915 I don't think it's a 15 cm K16 Krupp (or Rheinmetall) because the first two guns of this model were ready for field testing in octobre 1915 and they were tested in the Verdun area. But.... looking at the barrel it resembles very closely the barrel for a 15 cm K16. Maybe the data on the plague is wrong? regards Arjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 However the other 15cms around in 1915 did not use this system of transportation being carried or towed with carriage and tube already assembled. Both the Krupp and Krupp and Rheinmetall guns were specifically designed to allow transportation in two loads when pulled by horses. So possibly the plaque is incorrect - it wouldn't be the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 21 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Looking again at the link Ian gave us in Post 15, the gun was "Originally at Esholt Hall, near Leeds, where it was unveiled in 1922." It could be the DLI association is more assumed than actual and the date of 1915 is irrelevant. Perhaps we should be looking for a Leeds connection instead? Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Keith, I could be wrong? but I can find no direct link between any West Riding unit and Hooge during June/August, 1915. So the mystery deepens!! Where was Redman Park anyway? or is it now at Beamish? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 21 July , 2011 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Robert, I don't know that there is a link to Hooge and suspect that the dedication ceremony being held on Hooge Day was more because of associations with the new site for it than with its original one. To get to the bottom of this we may need to look at Leeds newspapers of 1922. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 21 July , 2011 Share Posted 21 July , 2011 Robert, I don't know that there is a link to Hooge and suspect that the dedication ceremony being held on Hooge Day was more because of associations with the new site for it than with its original one. To get to the bottom of this we may need to look at Leeds newspapers of 1922. Keith Given that Esholt Hall is in Shipley a Bradford paper might be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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