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Numanoid817

Giessen POW Camp WW1

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Numanoid817

This picture was taken in Giessen POW Camp in WW1. I don't know what year. My great Grandfather William Foley is in the seated row, second from the right sitting next to the priest. The plaque that is being held by the soldiers in front reads. 'Roman Catholic Prisoner of War Choir Geissen'. What i really want to know is what unit my Great Grandfather was in. I don't know what cap badges were worn by the different units. I think he may have been in The Munster Fusilliers. I know he was a Sergeant and was eventually released after the war and lived in Cork in Ireland until his death in 1962

post-75833-0-08511100-1311036922.jpg

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Stebie9173

The cap badge is difficult to make out at that size, but he appears to be wearing an offficers uniform - officers wore a uniform with lapels and a shirt and tie, rather than a closed collar.

Can you re-scan the photograph so that the cap badge is as large as possible?

Also, did he have any middle names that you are aware of?

Steve.

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Numanoid817

Hi Steve.

Thanks for your reply.

I'm not convinced that William was an officer as you can see has 3 stripes on his right sleeve. Maybe a Sgt/Maj?? I don't know!

I don't know of any middle names he may have had.

I've had a look at a lot of cap badges and i'm fairly convinced that that cap badge on his cap in from The Munster Fusiliers.

AF

post-75833-0-86086300-1311073918.jpg

post-75833-0-93081900-1311073962.jpg

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Verrico2009

Two MICs to William Foleys in the Munsters:-

6570 - address on back: 14 Stream Hill, Dillon's Cross, Cork (oh - and rank of "Sgt").

9020 - "died" (but also from Cork).

Neither mention PoW, but that's not unusual. Last night I found a list of PoWs in another man's file and checked one of them out: sure enough, not mentioned.

Hope that helps.

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Numanoid817

Thank you so much Verrico2009.

If you could only see the grin on my face now.

6570 is indeed the William i am enquiring about.

If you can find anymore info about him i would be entirely grateful

AF

I'd also be interested to know who the other William Foley from Cork was (9020) A relative maybe!!

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Verrico2009

Even better news for you - if you go to the National Achives website, a second card appears for him: noting, Serjeant / Temporary Company Quarter Master / Serjeant

You can purchase copies of both: Foley1 and Foley2

EDIT - my lunchbreak is just about up, but I'm sure the hunt will be on in case there's any surviving service papers!

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Stebie9173

The 2nd Royal Munster Fusiliers had a large proportion of the battalion taken POW at Etreux on 27th August 1914. 6570 Sgt W Foley appears on a list of Missing from the battalion at Etreux that was published in the Times of 21st October 1914, so he spent most of the war as a POW (along with a distant relative of mine, 7901 Richard Tyers)

I have previously posted the list of the missing here:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=68923

The WO372/23 series Medal Card is for Military Medals and Distinguished Conduct Medals. I think it may be for a Military Medal in relation to services as a POW, but I will try and check.

EDIT:

Yes, here it is - a Military Medal for services as a POW:

London Gazette 30-1-1920

His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of the Military Medal to tihe undermentioned Warrant Officers, Non-Commissioned Officers and Men for bravery in the Field, whose services have been brought to notice in accordance with the terms of Army Order 193 of 1919. To be dated 5th May, 1919, unless otherwise stated: —

ROYAL MUNSTER FUSILIERS.

5829 Coy./S.M. McEvoy, P. W., 2nd Bn. (Limerick).

6570 Sjt. (T./Coy./Q.M. Sjt.) Foley, W., 2nd Bn. (Cork).

9118 Sjt. Johnson, G. C. J., 2nd Bn. (Portsmouth)

9264 Cpl. Padfield, R. D., 2nd Bn. (Bath).

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/31759/supplements/1223

(Army Order 193 relates to "Rewards for Officers and Soldiers for services in the field and for services rendered in captivity or in attempting to escape or escaping therefrom.")

I presume that he lost his own tunic and ended up with an officers tunic at some point.

Steve.

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Doug Johnson

Steve,

I do not think the award was for him as a PoW but was awarded to him for bravery in the field before he became a PoW, probably in the action when he was captured. The order covers PoWs but includes those where the bravery took place before they were taken prisoner but for various reasons awards could not be made at the time.

Doug

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Stebie9173

Thanks, Doug. I didn't know that. I shall bear it in mind in future.

The award of 4 M.M.s to 2nd RMF does make more sense in that light.

Steve.

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Numanoid817
<br />Steve, <br /><br />I do not think the award was for him as a PoW but was awarded to him for bravery in the field before he became a PoW, probably in the action when he was captured.<br /><br />Doug<br />
<br /><br /><br />

Is it possible so, that one of the medals he received was for an act of bravery in the field?? Since my first post, i have managed to track down William's medals although i haven't had a chance to see them yet!

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Stebie9173

That is what Doug is saying. Certainly medals were awarded that late in the war, possibly because in the Munster's case most of the witnesses, including the recipients were POW for the whole war.

If there was a report in the local paper, either at the beginning or end of the war, it may cast some light on the issue.

Steve.

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Doug Johnson

The answer is in Steve's post no 7 where there are three categories for awards made under that order;

Bravery in the field

Services rendered in captivity

Escaping or attempting to escape

All three are listed under separate sections in the LG so the MM was awarded for bravery in the field as it says in the heading to where it was listed (see Steve's post)

I would suggest looking for a newspaper report after the war rather than during it.

Doug

Doug

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museumtom

I will have the War Dead Databases in Camden Fort in Crosshaven, this weekend if you wish to call in. I am heading there in an hour or so but will be there until Sunday evening.

Regards.

Tom.

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Verrico2009
Since my first post, i have managed to track down William's medals...

Great news!

While I was at Kew last week I dug out his medal roll details and am happy to email them to you if you want to send me a private message, tho there's no extra info. Also while we were there my "able assistant" (now KevinBattle) pulled up the MM card which I thought I'd post here for viewing.

Edit - in case it helps Tom, William Foley 9020 sister's address is on his MIC as "[inchand?]", Glanmire, Co Cork and I can see from the medal roll that he died of wounds on 22 August 1915.

post-49061-0-48165100-1312011148.jpg

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Numanoid817

Cheers. Thanks for posting these. biggrin.gif

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Guest Gerald Dare

My grandfather was captured at Passendale in October 1917. He ended up at Giessen POW camp. Is there information about where the camp was in the Giessen area? If I get the opportunity I am going to visit the region in the next year.

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The Prussian

Hello!

The only info, I´ve got is this:

Screenshot (255).jpg

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AliceF

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Scotsmac

Readers of this thread may be interested in my post below which relates to the exhibition mention above.

Best Wishes

Keith

 

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9458-what-ww1-books-are-you-reading/&do=findComment&comment=2430394

 

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stiletto_33853

DSC06749 copy.jpg

from a collection of pictures of groups, individuals & postcards from a POW held there, Jan 1916 onwards.

Edited by stiletto_33853

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Scotsmac
On 06/12/2018 at 06:25, stiletto_33853 said:

DSC06749 copy.jpg

from a collection of pictures of groups, individuals & postcards from a POW held there, Jan 1916 onwards.

 

Will you be posting other photos from the collection?

Best Wishes

Keith

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stiletto_33853

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stiletto_33853

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stiletto_33853

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