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Remembered Today:

Did English Troops reach at Tekke Tepe on 9 August 1915?


akifemre

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Hello again - One of the sources of the story that the East Yorks gained Tekke Tepe might be A Kearsey's "Notes and Comments on the Dardanelles Campaign" published in 1934. I have the 2004 reprint...on page 63 he states "[on the 9th August] A company of the East Yorks attached to the 32nd Bde succeeded in occupying a position on Tekke Tepe, commanding the whole of the Anafarta Sagir".

Kearsey was a Lt Col General Staff and served in the Dardanelles. His book was published shortly after the OH. Personally I still don't believe the East Yorks managed to gain Tekke Tepe but I thought this was a good candidate for one of the main sources of this version of events. Just FYI. Mg

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Hello again - One of the sources of the story that the East Yorks gained Tekke Tepe might be A Kearsey's "Notes and Comments on the Dardanelles Campaign" published in 1934. I have the 2004 reprint...on page 63 he states "[on the 9th August] A company of the East Yorks attached to the 32nd Bde succeeded in occupying a position on Tekke Tepe, commanding the whole of the Anafarta Sagir".

Kearsey was a Lt Col General Staff and served in the Dardanelles. His book was published shortly after the OH. Personally I still don't believe the East Yorks managed to gain Tekke Tepe but I thought this was a good candidate for one of the main sources of this version of events. Just FYI. Mg

Martin,

Thank you very much for your sharing. It is very interesting account. What did he write on 9 August morning events beside this note? Until when did they stay on Tekketepe summit?(?) In your opinion, is it consistent with other accounts?

Regards.

Tuncay

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Martin,

Thank you very much for your sharing. It is very interesting account. What did he write on 9 August morning events beside this note? Until when did they stay on Tekketepe summit?(?) In your opinion, is it consistent with other accounts?

Regards.

Tuncay

Nothing much...just a series of disconnected notes on the movements of other troops that does not tie in particularly well with the Aspinall-Oglander's OH...which is strange since the OH Vol II was published in 1932 and Kearsey's notes were published in 1934.

He does not provide any evidence or backing to this claim. He also just says that the 32nd Bde withdrew...but does not specifically mention the East Yorks again..... implicitly when he says the 32nd Bde withdrew, he includes the East Yorks. He gives no timings for the withdrawal. It is not well written.

I merely gave it as an example of a main source of misinformation on the events on Tekke Tepe. MG

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Thanks again Martin. Your posts always draw attention.

Regards

Tuncay

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  • 3 months later...

My latest thoughts on Tekke Tepe. Studying the ground with the Sevki Pasha maps reveals (to my thinking at least) the route that the Bn took started on a bearing of 70 degrees (red line) from Sulajik Farm. Interestingly this bearing completely misses Tekke Tepe and aims for the more south westerly (nearer) shoulder. For reasons articulated in previous posts this is an easy mistake to make as this spur would appear higher from the starting point in the plain.

A 70 degree bearing would channel the troops into the gully marked 'A'...from that point onwards terrain would have an enormous influence on the route taken - either they were chanelled along the gully shown in blue, or they advanced ed along the high ground along the spur shown in green. My inclination is that the went along the gully as there are accounts of being fired on from three sides. Both routes would be challenging as the countours will show there are extremely steep parts on the two probable routes of advance. Interestingly both would arrive at the 'false' peak marked 'B'. Personally this is as far as I think they got as the account (s) talk of an open area between the furthest point reached and the true top. If I am wrong on this, the route marked in orange would be the natural line of advance from here to point 'C' - still short of the objective.

The distance from A to B as the crow flies is 1.6 km (1 mile)...the distance from B to C is 0.6 km ...and the distance from C to Tekke Tepe is 0.5 km.

MG

1. Overview

2. Detail

post-55873-0-21408900-1322304581.jpg

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  • 9 months later...

Hello again. It has been 10 months. Today, whilst trawling the War Diaries at TNA I found two more parts of the jigsaw puzzle of Teke Tepe;

1. 6th East Yorks (Pioneers). HD QRS 33rd Bde. Reconnaisance of high ground 1/2 mile to the N of ANAFARTA SAGIR reports as follows: -

S [outh] Party (from SW of ridge to a mile to the W) reports ravine occupied by about 20 of the enemy. The patrol was forced to open fire killing one TURK. Th others returned NE over hill. Patrol was fired on by snipers from N of ANAFARTA SAGIR which is in hostile occupation as small parties of TURKS could be seen entrenching it. Trenches evacuated by enemy were found at W end of ravine. Nothing could be seen or information obtained regarding enemy's position in front of 32nd Bde.

N [orth] Party. From the Ravine to 1000 x [yards] N on the ridge. When the patrol reaches the foot of the high ground 4 parties of about 4 Turks each halted on the W slope of the hill also individual TURKS moving SE towards the village. They were apparently moving to escape the shell fire of the ships. Nothing could be seen of any forward body of the enemy or any sign that the hill was occupied by him.

H E Moore Lt Col Comdg 6th Est Yorks (Pioneers) Aug 8. 15.

Source: Supplementary notes to War Diary 6th (service) Bn East Yorkshire regiment (Pioneers), 11th (Northern) Div.

Again this confirms that the heights were only lightly defended on the 8th August. The 6th East Yorks patrol report is mentioned elsewhere in the Diaries. I think the fact that the East Yorks had done the patrol might have been one of the reasons why, at the last minute, they were ordered to take Teke Tepe on the 9th despite being the unit furthest away of those in the immediate vicinity of Sulaijik-Chocolate Hill-Scimitar Hill. My conjecture. MG

2.
Statement Made to W.O. by Lieut R A Rawstorne 6th East Yorks Regt (Pioneers, 11th Division) about 9.8.15 at TEKE TEPE, SUVLA BAY.

Very early on the morning of 9.8.15 the C.O. 6th E Yorks Regiment received orders to move from high ground occupied the previous day and to take and secure at dawn a hill called TEKE TEPE, belived to be occupied by the enemy.On arrival at the foot of TEKE TEPE dawn had already broken and hill been occupied by the enemy.
Consequently the advance up the hill was slow, being impeded by the enemy's fire. This however was not a very hot fire and most of the leading Company (D) managed to get two thirds of the way up the hill.
I commanded the leading platoon of the this company and managed to get further.
It was evident however before very long that the Turks while perhaps drawing us on up the hill had detached a strong force down one or both sides of the hill to attack our main force in the flank.
It was while D Coy was still advancing up the hill though in thin numbers that the main fight could be heard going on some way down the hill, perhaps even right at the foot.
Shortly afterwards I received orders from my Company commander to retire; as the company was by this time quite detached from the rest of the battalion. We were almost certainly cut off by the enemy.
A certain number of men not quite so high up the hill succeeded in getting some way back; only however to be captured later.

But before I could successfully retire, Turks from the hill were on top of me and the few men with us as

(1) I was far removed from the main fight

(2) I could hear Turks moving about immediately below

(3) The Turks who came on to us were not fighting so much as looking about for wounded etc.

(4) Two of the men with me were badly wounded:

I decided to surrender.

This suggests again that the 6th East Yorks did not reach the top. I would have thought that the lead Platoon Commander of the lead Company, had he reached the top, he might have mentioned this. It is worth noting that this was his staement to the War Office explaining how he became a prisoner. The pressure to not be seen to have surrendered easily must have been immense. It seems consistent with the other accounts. MG

Source: The National Archives: CAB 45/242 Correspondence papers with Aspinall Oglander Official Historian

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  • 2 months later...

Hello

A recently arrived copy of The East Yorkshire Regiment in the Great War by Everard Wyrall sheds some light and some more confusion on the Tekke Tepe situation. I will expand on the points it makes, but in summary the history claims;

  1. There were three patrols sent out by the 6th Bn East Yorks on the 8th that reached various key positions. It gives grid references, one of which exactly tallies with Tekke Tepe. viz 119.O "Top of Tekke Tepe"..... 106 B "Anafarta Ridge"...... 105 P and quotes the source of this as the "Revised (sic) Diary of the 32nd Inf Bde HQ" . Note this is consistent with Nevison's account published in 1918. The War Diaries and Lt Col Moore's patrol report give the impression of only two patrols.
  2. There are other first hand accounts , some of which are quoted in detail in the history

    1. Maj Cowper 2IC . Quoted in detail. (also in correspondence with Aspinall Oglander)
    2. Maj Bray OC B Coy. Quoted in detail
    3. Capt Still Acting Adjt (additional info) Partly quoted.
    4. Lt Ferranti RE, 67th Field Coy RE. Describes in details his movements but does not quote him.

[*]The leading company (D Coy) split into three groups led by

  1. Lt Col Moore CO, Maj Brunner RE and Lt Still
  2. Capt Steele
  3. Capt Elliott

[*]The CO, Capt Elliott, Lt Rawstone and Lt Sill reached the summit . Various accounts put the numbers reaching the summit between 12 and 30. The history describes it thus: "This little party of East Yorkshiremen had achieved the brilliant feat of reaching a position father east on the heights above Suvla Bay than any other British troops...." It goes on to describe how they were surrounded at the top and how Lt Col Moore was killed at the top. Note this contradicts the accounts above.

[*]2 Lt Underhill who left an account (see above) was not with D Coy.

Followers of this thread will not fail to notice some of the contradictions with the other first hand accounts. I will expand on this later in the week once I have done a bit more research....Starting with the grid references...the mysterious 'revised' 32nd Inf Bde War Diary etc.... I think it is fair to conclude that the history was a major force behind the idea that the 6th East Yorks took the summit. It was published in 1928 i.e some years after Lt Still's and 2 Lt Underhill's letters to the newspapers published in 1923 and 1925. Still was certainly consulted during the writing of the history as he is quoted recounting part of the story relating to signalling Bde HQ with the patrol reports; " I sent the message myself".

More later.... Regards MG

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Another source - the "Operations of 11th Division from 30th June to 23rd August" by Brig Gen F Hammersley CB records the following

"About 3:50 a.m. Lt Colonel Moore with the leading Company D 6th East Yorkshire Regiment and the 67th Field Company RE started on a bearing which would take him over the hill at 119 S 4.
1
He was followed 10 minutes later by Major Cowper with the rest of the battalion. Major Cowper had had some difficulty in getting the men formed up in the dark.
The 8th Duke of Wellington's regiment moved in support. A party of the Brigade Signal Section followed the force laying out wire and communication was kept up by this means for some distance. Touch was however suddenly lost and Brigade were unable to get into communication again.

Lt Colonel Moore's party reached a point near the high ground 119 S but was here attacked in greatly superior force and practically annihilated. Lt Colonel Moore, a most efficient CO was killed , also Major Brunner Commanding 67th Field Company RE. The Sergeant Major of D Company with about a platoon managed to fight his way through the Turks between the leading party and the remainder".

Notes:

1. This grid reference is exactly consistent with point B marked on the map in post #31s and market with a red asterisk on the 1:10,000 map below

Thoughts:

1. This operational report confirms that D Coy did not reach the peak of Tekke Tepe before being surrounded.

2. I think it highly likely that the CSM of D Coy was consulted when this episode was recorded.

3. The report later mentions that Major Cowper reached a point described as the nullah at 118 Z 5 without any opposition which is consistent with the starting point of the routes marked in post #31, so I think the speculation about the route taken is correct. on the British 1:20,000 Maps this is very close to Baka Baba Chesme (spring) at 118 Z 9. The nullah position reached by Maj Cowper is marked on the 1:10,000 map below with a yellow asterisk. It might also suggest that they took the most direct route from Sulajik Farm along the road running ENE from Sulajik.

4. This reinforces my view that although they did reach some high ground, it was not Tekke Tepe. Additionally, it also reinforces my view that the confusion created by the foreshortening effects mentioned in earlier posts and the 70 degree bearing meant that they probably thought they were heading straight for Tekke Tepe but in fact were many hundred yards to the SW of Tekke Tepe.

post-55873-0-90042100-1355857744_thumb.j

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  • 9 months later...

Hello - I thought I would try and revive this debate... under my nose for the last 9 months has been a sketch map in the 11 Div War Diaries showing the position of troops when the Turkish attack was put in....

the three maps below show

1. Map trace based on the 1:10,000 maps sheets 118 and 119 showing the position of the 6th East Yorks, 67 Fd Coy RE and the 9th West Yorks when the attack was put in.

2. Same as 1. above but 50% faded out

3. Same as above completely faded out showing the underlying 1:10,000 scale map of sheets 118 and 119.

Thoughts:

1. If this map is in any way accurate, it shows the line of advance was going up the north-most spur rather than up the gully close to Chakal Chair an 1,000 yards further north of Baka Baba.

2. Separate to this there is correspondence from an Officer of the 6th East Yorks in the Aspinall Oglander Papers describing meeting a Captain of D Coy (Capt Grant) at the nullah at the foot of the hill who had been shot in the arm and reported him saying that D Coy with Col Moore was 800 yards ahead. On this basis it would put D Coy barely one third of the way up the hill.

Perhaps confirming what is now consensus - that they did not reach the top- but also I think providing some evidence of the route they took. Just some thoughts.

MG

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post-55873-0-79301700-1379785248_thumb.j

post-55873-0-51581400-1379785284_thumb.j

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  • 1 year later...

Thank you this thread is fascinating . I am not a military historian but an amateur trying to understand what happened on Tekke tepe on the 9th August . I am researching the men named on a memorial to the 67th field company RE killed in Gallipoli and France . 44 are named ,19 dying in Gallipoli, 1 in Egypt and 1 who is remembered and reburied in Baghdad, CWGC say he died in Belemedick in Asia minor" I see this is in Turkey and wonder if he was a prisoner of war .. perhaps even captured on 9th August

Barbara

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Thank you this thread is fascinating . I am not a military historian but an amateur trying to understand what happened on Tekke tepe on the 9th August . I am researching the men named on a memorial to the 67th field company RE killed in Gallipoli and France . 44 are named ,19 dying in Gallipoli, 1 in Egypt and 1 who is remembered and reburied in Baghdad, CWGC say he died in Belemedick in Asia minor" I see this is in Turkey and wonder if he was a prisoner of war .. perhaps even captured on 9th August

Barbara

67 Fd Sqn war diary records on 9th Aug during the failed assault on the hills in question they lost 6 missing, another 6 men wounded and missing and 12 more wounded. Possibly some of the men on the memorial.

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…. 1 who is remembered and reburied in Baghdad, CWGC say he died in Belemedick in Asia minor" I see this is in Turkey and wonder if he was a prisoner of war .. perhaps even captured on 9th August

Barbara

Belemedik was a work camp for POWs located in the Taurus Mountains, one of of the camps where POWs worked on the railway tunnels for the Berlin to Baghdad Railway.

For more details, see the FIBIS Fibiwiki page "Prisoners of the Turks (First World War)"

http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Prisoners_of_the_Turks_(First_World_War)

Cheers

Maureen

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  • 3 years later...
  • Admin
On 27/06/2011 at 08:35, Krithia said:

An interesting post. I agree with Kenan Çelik and Şahin Aldoğan that during Colonel Moore's advance with his HQ and D Company, they only reached the forward slopes near Baka Baba, however during the morning I beleive that signallers had actually reached the top, or near to the top to signal back. See the previous post

which has letters from eye-witnesses of this.

Rgs Krithia

 

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