British uniforms India 1914

[Muerrisch]

Frocks, khaki [not officialy khaki drill or KD] were held in threes by the line infantry soldier. The collar design had evolved from mandarin to turned down well before 1914. The pocket flap evolved over a similar period: most late issues had a simple rectangular flap, but scalloped ones are seen almost throughout the period 1900-1914 ...... I suspect that some were private purchase. Local tailors from Gibraltar through Malta and Cyprus to Aden, India and Burmah were adept at running up KD made to measure in half a day, and often in superb material. My own "three of each shirts, longs and shorts" cost next to nothing in Nicosia in 1961 and were still going strong 15 years later. As seen above, shoulder titles were standard, collar badges not so, but worn by some, usually SNCOs but some more junior soldiers. This probably unit-based. By 1914 the official ranking chevron material was herring-bone as per SD, but the wider worsted lace [and gold for senior ranks] seems to have been preferred. Rank was [uniquely to khaki and to the SD greatcoat] worn on both sleeves. C-Sgts had to make do with three chevrons and crown. Unique to India was the Infantry Scout skill-at-arms badge worn bottom left sleeve, either in worsted or in gilding metal, sand-cast, one of the earliest "in-wreath" badges, an "S" with serifs in a tight wreath, smaller than the later wreathed badges. I will do a scan of Cheshires sporting this badge in 1902, a very early issue of the new-fangled badge.

[Andrew Upton]

Riding boots!

Might be a terminology difference, but I wouldn't have classed those as riding boots - they are ankle boots worn with the seperate "Stowasser" style gaiters

[Joe Sweeney]

and lastly a man of the King's Regt in British Patt KD, complete with khaki herringbone type chevrons and a Wolseley helmet showing the regimental title in white on scarlet cloth, often cut from old frock shoulder straps. The square cut pocket flaps and stand and fall collar are typical of the UK pattern and as seen on the RWF man above.

Frogsmile,

You are actually showing an India Pattern Khaki Frock, not UK unless post 1924.

Grumpy,

I do not have much info for anything KD prior to 1900 at hand--but the RACD clothing records do record a constent flip flop in KD patterns with the India Patterns always seeming to be preferred. That is prior to ~1896/8 the UK and India had separate patterns and then around 1896/8 the UK adopted the India Pattern. The patterns then divereged again after 1900 with the UK adopting the India Pattern again in 1924.

I have the RACD ledgers for these changes in the late 19th Century but they are in storage right now.

Here is a bit of info on the British evolution in KD. Relavent since UK and India patterns were interchangeable by the India Army Clothing Regs

With KD Drill uniform patterns there are actually two different Armies in question; the British Army and the Indian Army. In this case the Indian Army includes all British Battalions stationed in India or under Indian Army control in theatres of war such as Mesopotamia.

The Indian Army Pattern KD Drill frocks were of slightly different pattern than those made in the UK for the British Army. Indian Army Pattern is easily distinguishable from the British pattern by the straight pocket flaps (circa 1903-1924).

Two Indian Army Clothing Factories existed:

1. Alipore—supplied all units in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th and 8th Divisions and Bannu, Kohat and Derajat Brigades

2. Madras—supplied all units of the 4th, 5th, 6th and Burma Divisions and Aden Brigade)

I do not have detailed pattern information on the Indian Patterns.

Below is an example of Indian Manufactured KD frock being worn by a British soldier.

For British manufactured KD frocks the Evolution is as follows:

5875/1903—New pattern introduced—Classic pattern with turn down collar, two darts at collar and pointed pocket flaps.

5875a---Aug 1906 --removed ID card in pocket

5875b/1908—Metal titles instead of Embroidered titles

8226/1915--March 1915 First pattern Simplified KD introduced.

This example of a simplified frock is from the 1/5th Essex.

These three soldiers show a mix of the Pre-war and simplified pattern UK manufactured KD Frocks.

March 1917 instructions issued that Shoulder straps of pattern 5875b would be machine sewn on instead of hand sewn.

July 1918 Committee approved pattern—new revised simplified pattern.

1924—KD to be made in new shade of KD drill and in India Pattern.

Hope this is of interest.

Joe Sweeney

[FROGSMILE]

Frogsmile,

You are actually showing an India Pattern Khaki Frock, not UK unless post 1924.

Hope this is of interest.

Joe Sweeney

Thanks Joe, all to be added to the sum of knowledge. One thing you have said that especially puzzles me is that the 'pointed' pocket flaps are British pattern when so many here in the past have commented on them as being Indian Pattern. It just shows how if something is repeated enough it can be taken as read! What you have posted is both interesting and useful in correcting some misapprehensions. Thank you.

[Muerrisch]

Joe, thank you as ever for your detailed briefing.

One point to clarify, and one of divergence.

Quote: Here is a bit of info on the British evolution in KD. Relavent since UK and India patterns were interchangeable by the India Army Clothing Regs

This is potentially misleading. When you refer to UK pattern I think you mean UK manufacture for wear in hot countries other than India, such as Cyprus? Regarding interchangeability, in practice this meant that, for a soldier going from India to a hot colony, he could continue to wear certain items. And vice-versa. In 1914 the relevant list was the helmet, Wolseley; frock khaki; trousers khaki; jersey/cardigan waistcoat; boots ankle.

Not sure if in fact we disagree but photo evidence suggests that the IP frock c. 1902 and much later had the nasty mandarin collar and pointed pocket flaps, granted some could be there as a result of interchangeability, but there are a lot around!

I will try to dig out some photos that I can date fairly accurately to make my point.

Yes, my post 51 is dated 1906.

I will keep looking.

[wainfleet]

Thanks Joe, all to be added to the sum of knowledge. One thing you have said that especially puzzles me is that the 'pointed' pocket flaps are British pattern when so many here in the past have commented on them as being Indian Pattern. It just shows how if something is repeated enough it can be taken as read! What you have posted is both interesting and useful in correcting some misapprehensions. Thank you.

It's not actually a misapprehension, because the Indian type did indeed have pointed pocket flaps. Post 33 shows the pointed pocket flaps that denote the Indian-made frock up to and during the Boer War. As Joe mentioned, from c. 1903 the pattern appearns to ahve changed and the pocket flaps became straight. The flap in this photo is the typical Indian type of the late Victorian era, in the shape of a cursive bracket coming to a distinct point.

Post 34 shows the V-shaped pocket flaps found on British-made frocks. These were certainly being worn by 1899. Also in use around this time was a type of frock with scalloped pocket flaps. This type, too, continued in use into the Boer War.

I have owned frocks of both types and believe the scalloped flaps were British-made, being the immediate predecessor to the V-shaped flaps. I no longer have any examples of these, but at the time I based my belief on their construction, the type of drill used, and contemporary illustrations. However, Post 18 shows what is evidently an Indian-made frock with scalloped pocket flaps, so maybe this pattern persisted amongst some local suppliers.

[Muerrisch]

Here is a cropped shot of 2ndRWF MI section under Lt CS Owen, showing a transitional phase, some men in mandarin and pointed, some with turned down and square. Owen was made Captain in 1906, so photo is after 1902 and before then.

[Muerrisch]

another transitional one believed to be Dorsets Ferozepore 1906

[Muerrisch]

Can we move on to shorts please?

A starter: Dorsets 1906 "types of the regiment".

Shorts were not an issued item: here with have them in two orders of dress.

Has anyone seen earlier?

[FROGSMILE]

It's not actually a misapprehension, because the Indian type did indeed have pointed pocket flaps. Post 33 shows the pointed pocket flaps that denote the Indian-made frock up to and during the Boer War. As Joe mentioned, from c. 1903 the pattern appearns to ahve changed and the pocket flaps became straight. The flap in this photo is the typical Indian type of the late Victorian era, in the shape of a cursive bracket coming to a distinct point.

Post 34 shows the V-shaped pocket flaps found on British-made frocks. These were certainly being worn by 1899. Also in use around this time was a type of frock with scalloped pocket flaps. This type, too, continued in use into the Boer War.

I have owned frocks of both types and believe the scalloped flaps were British-made, being the immediate predecessor to the V-shaped flaps. I no longer have any examples of these, but at the time I based my belief on their construction, the type of drill used, and contemporary illustrations. However, Post 18 shows what is evidently an Indian-made frock with scalloped pocket flaps, so maybe this pattern persisted amongst some local suppliers.

Yes, I see now what you mean. The variety of KD patterns seems to be a veritable minefield, quite confusing and not least perhaps exacerbated by the prolific output of privately made examples from Indian (and other 'Empire') tailors shops in the local bazaar, as mentioned by Grumpy. It would be useful to see all the varied generic patterns listed by date and style to make some coherent sense of it.

[Muerrisch]

Its because the whole subject of IP clothing is a minefield that we are collectively sorting out a sequence ....... I hope!

Greatcoats: these were "public clothing" as opposed to "personal". This category was used for high value objects and some odds and sods. As far as we are concerned, this means they were accounted separately, and, as the example of the greatcoat, could be officially passed on to another soldier because the official shelf life was 8 years and therefore longer than the average tour of duty.

The issue item by 1914 was the SD in use at Home, badges identically.

We have seen above that the British Warm was issued additionally to soldiers at cold stations. Again, they were not "personal", this time regarded as station stores on inventory.

[Muerrisch]

last one today: KD frock China 1901 note no pleats on pockets ...... 2nd RWF were rushed there from India for Boxer Rising so frocks highly likely IP 1900 or so.

[Grovetown]

Ignore the first 20 posts or so as being irrelevant; but there's a load of stuff on KD here:

KD Thread

Cheers,

GT.

[Muerrisch]

Ignore the first 20 posts or so as being irrelevant; but there's a load of stuff on KD here:

KD Thread

Cheers,

GT.

Than you very much: the thick plottens.

[FROGSMILE]

Its because the whole subject of IP clothing is a minefield that we are collectively sorting out a sequence ....... I hope!

Greatcoats: these were "public clothing" as opposed to "personal". This category was used for high value objects and some odds and sods. As far as we are concerned, this means they were accounted separately, and, as the example of the greatcoat, could be officially passed on to another soldier because the official shelf life was 8 years and therefore longer than the average tour of duty.

The issue item by 1914 was the SD in use at Home, badges identically.

We have seen above that the British Warm was issued additionally to soldiers at cold stations. Again, they were not "personal", this time regarded as station stores on inventory.

Yes that makes complete sense and interestingly greatcoats are still, to this day not a personal item, but held collectively in Public Duties pools on a separate inventory - plus ca change!

[Muerrisch]

Before I deal with the elephant in the corner: blue patrols, a little intro:

Orders of Dress, Other Ranks, India.

According to KR 1914 paras 1713 et seq. “……. When off duty out of barracks …… review order will be worn, with forage cap in place of full dress headdress, and waistbelts …….”

And

“….. service dress [or the regulation cyclist suit] will be worn when cycling for recreation”.

The following are the orders of dress for Line Infantry:

Review order, No.1, Full Dress worn eg. State ceremonies, royal escorts, church as ordered, courts-martial, funerals.

KD to suit local conditions, khaki helmet and chinstrap, without badge or ornamentation.

Serge dress, helmet white cover and badge as full dress headdress.

Note no mention whites. No mention walking out except as above, ie. Scarlet.

Marching order, No.2, service dress eg. Active service, field days, marches

Full dress headdress but khaki helmet abroad.

Drill order, No.3, service dress eg. Drills, regimental duties, escorts with side arms.

This list is clearly not exhaustive, and particularly lacking for India.

The excellent booklet The HLI by McKay and Anderson describes the orders of dress for the 1st battalion in India: not absolutely run of the mill Line Infantry, but useful nonetheless. This is the list for 1912:

Review order. Scarlet frock, white helmet, boots blackened, waistbelt, sidearms. Hot weather whites.

Marching order. Khaki, with khaki helmet, haversack, water bottle, braces, pouches, greatcoat on back.

Drill order. KD, greased boots,

Walking out. Whites, with brown leather belt, white helmet in hot season.

1st RWF [at Home] 1912 was insistent that walking out was to be in scarlet tunic.

Clearly [if vast numbers of studio portraits are to be believed], things were a little more relaxed in India.

[Muerrisch]

Types of dress 2ndRWF c. 1908 India.

Even the Sergeant-Major has bare knees.

[Joe Sweeney]

Grumpy no issues and no divergence (except we are getting way away from the stated as near as possible to 1914)--which I'm actually not complaining about since not touching on evolution of patterns is not good. I would suggest start binning paterns into rough date groups.

"Quote: Here is a bit of info on the British evolution in KD. Relavent since UK and India patterns were interchangeable by the India Army Clothing Regs

This is potentially misleading. When you refer to UK pattern I think you mean UK manufacture for wear in hot countries other than India, such as Cyprus?"

My simple statement of UK pattern I hope folks did not take to mean a pattern only worn in the UK. It was a UK sealed pattern for all hot stations administered by the British Army==where-ever that maybe. The India pattern being a sealed pattern by the Indian ACD for troops under Indian Army authority--where ever they maybe.

"Not sure if in fact we disagree but photo evidence suggests that the IP frock c. 1902 and much later had the nasty mandarin collar and pointed pocket flaps, granted some could be there as a result of interchangeability, but there are a lot around!"

No disgareement at all as I said in the post I do not have detailed info on Indian Patterns (i'd love to find those records) and never said the pointed pocket flaps/ scalloped pocket flaps/ mandarin collar weren't Indian, but straight pocket flap is an Indian Characteristic circa the requested period (until 1924)with pointed being the official British Pattern. I actually believe probably the actual authorized pattern coming out of the Indian ACFs by 1914 was the turned down collar with straight pocket flaps and probably prior adopted sometime 1903-1910. Then there are the other odds and sods commonly seen.

Joe Sweeney

[Muerrisch]

Thank you Joe.

Now, while I am getting my stuff on blue patrols sorted, can I ask for SCOTTISH and RIFLES photos, in the orders of dress obviously tribal rather than conforming to bog-standard Line?

[Muerrisch]

Blue Patrols.

These were not an item issued to Line Infantry soldiers in or before 1914, so are not described in regulations except that a suit [ie included trousers or knickerbockers] was allowed to be privately purchased to an approved pattern for cycling recreational purposes]. These permissive paragraphs are in Clothing Regs, Indian Clothing Regs and KR 1914. No drawing or pattern is in the public domain. Blue patrols are a strong candidate.

The Blue patrols name was not official. A handsome garment in very dark blue, it had a stand-up collar, large enough for a collar badge if worn, shoulder straps with titles if worn, secured by a button, pleated breast pockets with buttoned flaps, and occasionally skirt pockets ditto.

The top quality rank and appointment badges were worn, and the garment appears in many period photographs, at Home and in India.

Here, at centre, n a 1902 group, is one in Blackpool on a RWF corporal, also showing one scarlet tunic left and one Home pattern frock.

[Muerrisch]

Because the blue patrol [bP] was privately owned, it was never ordered for duty, so is not seen in parade groups. Such a photo would be a revelation!

Its modern descendant via several iterations and Coronations is No.1 dress. Between the World Wars it was an optional private purchase for Senior NCOs and used in barracks and sometimes in Mess.

Talking of purchase, it is not impossible that, to ensure uniformity, it was purchased and issued at unit level.

Here is a later RWF version, note shoulder titles, no collars. Best quality embroidered badges. Scalloped flaps, no cuff buttons.

If a fusilier unit adopted collar badges they would be difficult to distinguish from RA undress frock at this sort of date, of course. Some RA undress had no pockets however.

DOES ANYONE HAVE A NON-FUSILIER BP ILLUSTRATION PLEASE

[Muerrisch]

RA undress left [pockets] and centre [no pockets]

[Muerrisch]

Cpl PTI 2ndRWF.

[Muerrisch]

I think this is not RWF, but probably fusiliers, and note 6 [at least] button fastening. NF favoured 6 buttons on the scarlet frock.

The BP was worn with either the Oxford blue trousers piped scarlet, or with the white trousers.

[Muerrisch]

We await Scottish, Rifles, and non-fusilier ills, please.

Whilst waiting, on to headdress, as it was officially spelled.

Whereas at Home for Review Order various regiments had many different styles, shapes, sizes, materials, there was a great deal of standardisation in India. The standard was the white Wolseley helmet, adorned regimentally. Its predecessor was the Colonial pattern with smartly cocked front peak and negligible sides, ubiquitous in the South African War 1899-1902, found to be inadequate in its prime function, shelter from the sun. The white cotton drill Wolseley [variously the Egyptian or the Kitchener] pattern was sealed late 1903, followed by a khaki cover. A privately purchased officers' version preceded this by many years, and my collection shows units on parade with officers in the Wolseley and men in the Colonial. Introduction was not rapid, but, by 1914, the Colonial had all but disappeared.

Examples, at posts:

14 a mixture, 23 and 24 Wolseley, 32 and 43 Colonial white, 33 Colonial khaki, 35 Wolseley khaki.