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Distinguished Conduct Medal


hen190782

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Hi

Apologies if this is not the appropriate fora for this question.

For one of my men, the London Gazette refers to a "clasp" having been awarded to a DCM awarded in 1901 - the PCI Roll of Honour specifies that he received bar to DCM.

My questions are is a "clasp" the equivalent of a "bar" and, if so, to which gallantry awards did "clasp" refer.

Were "clasps" only issued were the original medal had not been awarded in WW1?

Thanks

Nigel

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Nigel

I am of the impression that a clasp is a battle honour to be attached to the campaign medal and have found nowhere as yet which shows anything other than a Bar being attached to a gallantry medal for a second winning of the award.

Sotonmate

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Sotonmate

That is what I thought as well ... here is the extract from the London Gazette Supplement (30/03/1916, Page 3444):

post-43948-0-85835400-1306085818.jpg

Obviously I do not want to be specifying "Distinguished Conduct Medal and Bar" if it should be "Distinguished Conduct Medal and Clasp"

Or would it not matter ?

Nigel

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Nigel

I am wondering whether it was just a "civvy" reporter's human error in description of the award. I would have though that it mattered in the protocol scheme of things.

Sotonmate

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To all intents & purposes a CLASP & BAR are interchangable,the words mean the same,but customarily amongst Collectors & researchers,as stated above CLASP in most cases refers to "Campaign Clasps" eg:Queen's & King's South Africa Medal,General Service Medals,India General Service Medal etc;but one does see them referred to on occasion as "Battle Bars"... BAR in most cases refers to the Clasp awarded to represent a 2nd or Further Award of a Gallantry Medal or Decoration.

I doubt the scribes at the London Gazette would have confused the issue,They were just using official terminology.

HB :thumbsup:

The London Gazette refers to Clasp from 1914/16

Link To:~LG Refers to Clasp

& more Commonly to Bar from 1916 onwards

Link To:~LG refers to Bar

In response to the second part of your question,with Imperial{UK & Empire/Commonwealth} Honours a Second Medal or Decoration is not given {though as with anything mistakes were made & a further award erronously made} The Award of a Bar/Clasp was made to signify that in effect a Second award was granted,The original award having been made pre The Great War or during it,A Bar being awarded for a further Act/Acts of Courage considered worthy of a repeat award rather than a higher award,some DSO/MC/MM etc; winners in the Great War also went on to earn Bars for post 1920 & for WW2 Gallantry.

Conversely the EM [T] "Bar" for further long & efficient Service..for WW2 era is shown as Clasp"

Link To:~LG WW2 Clasp References

Link To:~LG WW2 Bar References

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Harry

Thanks for that ... so, in my Belfast Presbyterians database, I presume that it would be OK to refer to Gunner W Shields as "DCM (Bar)".

Nigel

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Harry

Thanks for that ... so, in my Belfast Presbyterians database, I presume that it would be OK to refer to Gunner W Shields as "DCM (Bar)".

Nigel

Nigel

Both his MIC's are here http://search.ancest...D9_x=1&uidh=000 on Ancestry, it'd be worth checking them before you make the assumption, although the citation certainly reads like a DCM winning one, I know Ancestry don't have MM Medal Cards, only the NA's do, I don't know if it's the same for DCM though, did you know his number later changed to 275551 and that his forename was William?

This is Possibly!!!!! his pension record http://search.ancest...C3_x=1&uidh=000 Born "Antrim".

Sam

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...I don't know if it's the same for DCM though..

Ancestry do have the DCM cards,they usually have an anotation rather than a seperate Card for a Bar [as do the MM/MSM Cards] written across the Card ie:~ "Bar To DCM LG/Date/Ref; etc"] I suspect as your man has just the Bar for the Great War it may well have its own Card!!

*& Yes perfectly correct to refer to DCM & Bar in database.

NB No Citations were published in the LG for most pre 1914 DCMs,details may possibly be found in the 10th Mountain Battery History of the Boer War.

Link To LG 1901 Mention/Commendation Header 10th Mountain Battery RGA

LG Link Page Shields Commendation {pre DCM}

LG Link South Africa 1901

London Gazette Link DCM Bar{Clasp}

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The page after Shields citation http://www.london-ga...upplements/3445 has one for 54571 Gunner F Vericoe 7th Siege Bty RGA, sadly Francis Horward Vercoe was killed 04/06/17 but his CWGC entry shows "DCM and Bar"

Name:VERCOE, FRANCIS HORWARD

Initials:F H

Nationality:United Kingdom

Rank:Corporal

Regiment/Service:Royal Garrison Artillery

Unit Text:145th Siege Bty.

Age:28

Date of Death:04/06/1917

Service No:54571

Awards:D C M and Bar

Additional information:Son of James and Mary Louisa Vercoe, of 18, West View Rd., Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference:A. 4.

Cemetery:UNDERHILL FARM CEMETERY

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Thanks, guys, I think I will avoid inconsistencies by just using the terms "Bar" in my database.

Nigel

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