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Remembered Today:

HMS HOGUE


Gordon Caldecott

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Weddigen was also awarded the Pour Le Mérite on October 24, 1914 for sinking the cruisers Aboukir, Cressy, Hogue and Hawke.

Best wishes,

Michael

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I hope this may be of interest? An extract from my book, 'The Victor Heroes,' the story of the 159 men from Saffron Walden, Essex who died in the Great War -

Able-Seaman Errington Hounsome NORMAN (SS 2428) Royal Navy, H.M.S Hogue, drowned 22nd. September 1914, aged 27. Commemorated on Chatham Naval Memorial, Kent, Panel 1.

Errington was born on June 5th. 1887 the son of William John and Susan Norman of 34 Victoria Avenue, a railway guard on the Saffron Walden branch line. On leaving the Boys’ British school, where he knew Alexander Perkin, he obtained work as a footman, before joining the Royal Navy in May 1908 signing on for five years. During this first year of service aboard H.M.S. Achilles, a cruiser, he was awarded the Messina Medal. This had been given to the men from eight Royal Naval ships involved in the relief of the Sicilian town when 80% of it was destroyed in an earthquake. Only some 3,500 were issued.

In 1913, when Errington’s period of service was up he left the Navy in the Royal Fleet Reserve and obtained a job working at Mr. Joseph Wright’s Motor works, 26 High Street. On the imminent outbreak of war he was called up on August 2nd. and joined H.M.S Hogue. From this point, Errington’s tragic story and that of his old school-fellow, Alexander Perkin are linked.

On September 22nd. 1914, The Hogue, the Cressy and another armoured cruiser of the same class, H.M.S Aboukir were on patrol in the Broad Fourteens off the Dutch coast, when they were sighted by the German submarine U 9.

The three ships were steaming ahead with a distance of three miles between them, when the Aboukir was torpedoed and sunk. The survivors were picked up by Errington’s H.M.S Hogue, but no sooner had they started to clamber aboard than another torpedo struck the Hogue and she went down in three minutes.

Again the accumulated survivors of both cruisers, possibly including Errington, swam to Alexander Perkin’s H.M.S Cressy and were hauled on board. Minutes later she was torpedoed and sank firing all her guns at the U 9 which was some 200 yards off.

I would dearly like to see a Messina Medal. Is there a list of recipients?

Bob

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I think my Gt Grandfather was on the Hogue and survivred the sinking.

Thers a lot o info regarding casulties, but does anyone know where i can find out about survivors

I think the best place to look for imformation about the survivors would be their local newspapers for a few weeks after the sinking. Most will have had home leave and received a visit from a reporter.

Kapitanleutnant Otto Weddigen and friend.

post-24-1106237487.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest Lyn Still

Hi my name is Lyn Still and I am very interested in any information on the Hogue, my grandfather was on the ship Joseph Holland AB183900, he attended the RN Gunnery School in Sheerness England

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Kapitanleutnant Otto Weddigen and friend.

It is his wife.

There is a good bit on Weddigen in "Raiders of the Deep" - Lowell THOMAS.

Kath.

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  • 2 months later...
Guest richpics5174

Would it have made such a difference if the DD's had come along? Was Anti-submarine warfare that well developed by the time? Sorry if this sounds dumb, but what could they have done to sink a sub, the DD's I mean?

just curious,

Richard

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Would it have made such a difference if the DD's had come along? Was Anti-submarine warfare that well developed by the time? Sorry if this sounds dumb, but what could they have done to sink a sub, the DD's I mean?

Tried to ram, that's about it. Depth charges hadn't been developed yet and sound gear also hadn't been fitted. A destroyer screen would likley have limited losses to Aboukir with reduced loss of life as they would have been doing the rescue work while the two other cruisers left the area. Best case is a destroyer sights U 9's periscope before she fires at Aboukir and she doesn't hit any of the cruisers.

Even after effective depth charges became available in 1916, most submarines sunk by them were as a continuation of an attempt to ram a submarine that had been surprised on the surface -- the depth charges infliciting fatal damge while the U-boat had barely gotten underwater. It would be mid-1918 before there were cases of submarines hunted to destruction by surface ships.

Best wishes,

Michael

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Guest richpics5174

Thanks Michael!

I was really wondering what a DD would do without depth charges. But then, subs weren't as well developed then either. They would have to have travelled near the surface to attack of course... yeah, makes sense!

Thanks again,

Richard

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Would be an interesting idea if the RN had engaged the Russians: would the French have come to their aid, and would Germany have capitalised on it to draw UK into their camp or neutrality?

Richard

Interesting one, but my guess is such a possibility was much more likely in 1910 than 1905. The RN in 1905 was large, but not particularly advanced or much different in other ways from many other navies. It may well not have been anxious to engage a fleet whose capabilities it didn't know, and so dangerously close to its own home, not theirs. Events at Tsushima demonstrating what a more modern navy might do to a traditional one must have added impetus to the development of the Dreadnought fleet. And it was that series of advances that led to the popular enthusiasm for naval warfare that was partly responsible for WW1.

If the incident had happened at a time when RN had a bunch of Dreadnoughts it was itching to try out, it's rather hard to imagine that such an engagement could have been prevented. If it had gone ahead, the alignments leading to WW1 would not have existed in anything like the same form, and history would have been very different.

Regards,

MikB

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Guest richpics5174

Did something happen in 1910 that would have given cause for this? (Balkan Wars perhaps?)

Also, was wondering if anyone knows which destroyers were detailed as the Bacchante's escorts to the Broad Fourteens?

Thanks,

Richard

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Guest richpics5174

This is somewhat OT but on the topic of international relations and royal connections here's something from the great Al Nofi's SHORT ROUNDS:

"Monarchs are in the habit of complimenting their fellow monarchs by conferring honorary military ranks upon each other.

The undisputed champion holder of such honorary ranks was undoubtedly Franz Joseph of Austria-Hungary (reigned 1848-1916), who held an honorary colonelcy in every European army and held field marshal's rank in every army that had such. However, this custom could at times create problems for the honoree, particularly when one found himself at war with a country which had, in more friendly times, granted various military honors. Franz Joseph was confronted with this problem at the onset of World War I, particularly with regard to his favorite honorary colonelcy-in-chief, that of the British King's Dragoon Guards.

To satisfy honor, His Imperial-and-Royal-Highness penned an unusual order:

'Should any officer or man of the King's Dragoon Guards be so unfortunate as to be taken prisoner, he is to be regarded as a personal guest for the duration of hostilities.' "

Interesting,

Richard

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  • 1 year later...

post-3977-1155583646.jpghello Gordon

I hope that the following is of interest to you.Last month I had to take my daughter to stay with her boyfriend's Grandmother and whilst we were there,she showed me her Grandfather's WW1 medals,along with a scroll and a bronze medal,all in a frame.He was A.B.William Charles Gibbs,who was killed when the Hogue was sunk,leaving a widow and three young children.I believe that his name is on the memorial at Chatham Docks.

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  • 1 month later...

Gordon

There were many police reservists on the Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue when they were sunk and a number of these were casualties. On the Hogue were 18 police reservists. I do not have a complete list but have the following information.

(1) PC Francis Huntley stationed Battersea, he joined the Metropolitan Police on 8.11.1909 as PC814V, warrant number 97463. To navy 5.8.1914, he was Leading Signalman 197488. Returned to police 31.1.1919 as PC935V and sadly died 18.11.1923.

(2)PC Edwards stationed Ditton, lived Long Ditton, Surrey. (See story below)

(3)Jesse Herbert Eason Stoker 1st class SS/1009502 joined the Met 6.9.1909 as PC497G, warrant number 97267. To navy 5.8.1914 and KIA on Hogue.

(4) PC Frank Andrews Met Police. Joined Met Police 6.1.1908 as PC141F warrant number 95317. 8.1.1913 PC141F to CID. 5.8.1914 Recalled to navy. 16.1.1919 Returned to Met as PC112F. 1.2.1919 To CID. 23.11.1921 Promoted to PS(2) X Div Kilburn. 20.3.1931 To PS(1). Date of retirement not known but he was with the Police Reserve as PS CID X on 31.8.1939 and resigned 26.1.1940.

(5) PC William Bruce Drayner City of London (you have details) Born Sandgate, Kent. Joined RN 21.7.1899 adn to RNR 24.6.1910. Joined City of London Police 4.7.1910. Recalled 4.8.1914 and drowned on Hogue, left widow and 2 children, one born after his death.

PC Edwards gave an account to the Daily Citizen newsapaper. 'I was standing looking at 'Aboukir' which had been torpedoed when there was an explosion almost under my feet and a swish as the water leapt into the air. At the same moment the vessel fell away from my feet three or four feet with a jerk. About 10 seconds afterwards I heard the same roar, and knew that another torpedo had got into us. The damage done to the hull must have been fearful, for the vessel sank in about 5 minutes. The outstanding feature was the coolness and the discipline of the men. Above all I shall not forget the heroism of our Captain as he stood on the bridge and told the men what to do. There were some 600 to 700 of us looking at him, and he shouted out, 'Men, we are sinking fast. You will soon have to take to the water, so throw off everything you can'. I got on the ledge on the ships side and saw men throw tables, stools, chairs, planks and other things into the sea. As I stood there I could see a crowd of men all jumping after them. Some of the poor fellows came in contact with some of these things, and were stunned and sank at once. I jumped into the water and took a last look at the poor old cruiser, there was little of her to be seen. I saw our brave Captain still standing on the bridge, and as he was carried away I thought I saw him throwing something into the water. I thought it might be the code signal book, but I may be mistaken. The ship disappeared from view very gently. Someone called out to me, thinking I was drowning, I waved my hand to show I was alright, but a boat came up and I was dragged into it. The boat was constructed to carry about 70 men, and there was about 130 in it. I thought I would make room for one, so I jumped into the sea again.

A very stirring account of the sinking and death of the captain for the readership.

John

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Flushing (Vlissingen) Northern Cemetery

Able Seaman Henry Augustus BROWN

service nr.206254

HMS HOGUE

Regards,

Cnock

Soorry,

forgot the photo

post-7723-1158940938.jpg

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  • 10 months later...

Also interested in Hms Hogue my Great uncle died aboard her

Name: PEART, GEORGE

Initials: G

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Seaman

Regiment: Royal Naval Reserve

Unit Text: H.M.S. "Hogue."

Age: 24

Date of Death: 22/09/1914

Service No: 5332A

Additional information: Son of Jane Peart, of The Pier, Tate Hill,

Whitby, Yorks, and the late David Peart.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 8.

Cemetery: CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL

Picture of survivors from Whitby

post-24047-1186904769.jpg

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Kev, `Et Al', have a list of survivors ABOUKIR HOGUE CRESSY picked up by HMS LOWESTOFT

One MOORE mentioned but he was A Moore.

No mention HOLLAND.

Also have Report of Enquiry - 134 pages.

KOKO Sadsac

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Have you found George Peart's service record? It should be on microfiche in BT 377/7 at Kew.

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Have you found George Peart's service record? It should be on microfiche in BT 377/7 at Kew.

No havent found George`s Service Record nor is older brothers Matthew leadley Pearts. Bit far for me to travel and funds is short lol.

Geoff

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A remote connection! My wife's grandfather Eric G Robinson (who was later to be awarded the VC) was on HMS Amethyst at the outbreak of war operating with Cruiser force C including Aboukir, Hogue & Cressey. The diary he kept at the time includes descriptions of the problems that Amethyst (a light cruiser) had in bad weather which explains why the destroyers were not present.

Robinson was posted to HMS Vengeance on the day before the three ships were sunk by the U9. The following month his brother died when HMS Hawke was sunk by the U9!

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Hi,

If anyone has an interest in HMS Hogue, I`d very much like to hear from you. I`m about to start researching on the of crew who went down on her, and would be really interested in chatting with anyone who has an interest in the ship.

Gordon.

A request to the Fleet Air Arm Museum earlier this year came good today when a thick envelope landed on my mat detailing my wife's Great Uncles RMLI career. Apparently he was on the Hogue from 19.11.02 - 20.05.04 so any info about the ship would be great.

Jon

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Well considering that the capital ships of both belligerents which fought at Tsushima were built in Britain (Palmers and Armstrong) and their capabilities were well known to Admiralty (Tennyson D'Eyncourt). I doubt whether Admiralty was overly concerned by Russian naval ambitions.

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Lyn, info you may already have re HOLLAND.

Joseph Holland 183900

D.o.B ; 080480 P.o.B ; Wickham Kent

PRO / NA ADM 188 / 634

KOKO Sadsac

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  • 3 years later...

Gordon

Here's some info to start you off re a member of the crew. This chap is comemorated on a memorial local to me & I've done some basic research on him

Painter Second Class Arthur Ward M6330

H.M.S. Hogue, Royal Navy

Lost at Sea Tuesday 22nd September 1914 age 19.

Arthur was the son of Mr & Mrs D Ward of 69 Western Road, Wolverton, Buckinghamshire & he is commemorated on the Wolverton Memorial.

Arthur was born in Wolverton in 1895 & joined the Navy in 1912 at the age of seventeen. Prior to this he was employed as an Apprentice Painter at the Wolverton Railway Carriage Works.

I know this is rather old post, but I have also discovered some info on Painter 2c Arthur Ward.

Although he did indeed live in Wolverton and work at the railway works as a painter (1911 census), he was in fact born in Hammersmith and his father's name was Richard (perhaps he was known as Dick hence the Mr D Ward reference). His mother's name was Alice (nee Dixon)

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  • 5 weeks later...

Fascinating piece of research. In respect of George Kidston -do you know how long and where he was interned in The Netherlands? My understanding was that the Broad Fourteens survivors who reached The Netherlands were allowed to return to Britain very quickly. The more long term interment of British servicemen who reached the Netherlands started after the fall of Antwerp in October 1914? Regards.

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