30th Signal Company Australian Engineers

[wheelsjbl]

I thought I would share with you some of the interesting things I have been discovering while researching a group of "unknown" men.

I have been asked/volunteered to help find out about a group of men whose names are inscribed on an "Honour Board" recently found here in Perth.

The Board is from 30th Signal Company, Australian Engineers, and is now in the hands of the local official Signals Association. No one seems to have heard of it beforehand.It is known that "Signals" was part of the Australian Engineering Corps, and that prior to WW1 most military units were civilian or militia. So from that point of view there is no problem, however no-one seems to know about this particular unit. This may change as it is still "early days"

The Board is apparently in a bad state of repair and it has been decided that, in view of the 100th anniversary of WW1, and particularly from the Australian point of view, also of the Gallipoli landings, that attempts are to be made to restore the Board and also to find out about the names thereon inscribed.

To date I have not personally sighted the Board, but hope to do so, and photograph it, shortly.I have however been given a list of the 93 names which are apparently inscribed; however there are difficulties due to the condition of the Board with actually reading the names correctly. Additionally all that is inscribed is a Surname and initials.

So that is the task I have been set to assist with. Find the records and anything else I can about these men whose names and initials may be wrong, who went to WW1 and were in the 30th Signal Company.

beforehand.

So far I have managed to find records for 84. About a half dozen or so of which I need to do more checking on to confirm they are who I think they are. The other 9 (1 of which may be a duplicate) I am going to have to wait until I see the actual Board myself and try and see if I can get a more accurate reading as I cannot seem to find them using all the permutations I can think of, of the names I have before me. Luckily the Australian National Archives, War Museum and other agencies have on-line records of this period and I have been sifting through them slowly.

As said earlier, it is still early days in this task and I am not (yet) really asking for any assistance, although if anyone here knows anything about this Signal Company I will not "knock back" any information I am given.

OK. That is the background, here is some of the information I have found out in the course of checking the records of these men, not all of whom were actually killed. Most actually survived the war.

Of the 84 names I believe I have identified, FIFTEEN have won the Military Medal or Military Cross. One has won BOTH and another won one of each! ("Won" isn't really the correct expression but you know what I mean. Earned perhaps? Deserved? Fought BL**DY hard for!) There are a few M.I.D.s as well, including a couple from HAIG himself, and a Military Service Medal in the mix.

I have found 1 original Anzac (i.e. went ashore on the morning of April 25, 1915) and about 4 others who were also there and MAY have landed on the first day as well.

I found a few who got promoted through the ranks to Commissioned Rank, one of whom then joined the Australian Flying Corps.

Although they all came from a "Signal" Company, only a few were actually in Signalling Companies during the war. Most were Infantry, some Machine Gunners or Artillery, a couple of medics, and from memory a couple of tunnellers.

8 were Killed in Action, 1 died of wounds, 1 caught T.B. and another Diphtheria. At least 5 were gassed on AT LEAST 1 occasion and I even found a Father & Son combination AND the brother of the Father, who all served in the same unit. Father and son were killed, but at different times. I have also found 2 soldiers that had legs amputated.So for a fairly small group of men they saw a lot of action.

It is when reading the Unit War Diaries and the individual service records that interesting "stuff" emerges.

The average height seems to have been about 5'6". There is one I remember who was 5'4" and I can only recall 1 that was over 6'.

Most were minors when they joined up (under 21 in those days) and needed their parents’ permission to serve overseas. A lot were only 18 and a couple tried to join BEFORE that age.

I even found a letter from one man's employer (actually a telegram) to him asking him to reconsider his actions in signing up!

There are tales of sadness as well. There are a lot of letters from mothers to the army about their sons. There is also at least 1 case where not only was the son killed in action, but his personal effects were lost when being sent home due to the ship they were on being torpedoed and sunk.

There is a lot of sickness recorded including Venereal diseases. Official records only tend to record disciplinary matters, medical matters, transfers, promotions and medal/MID awards on a soldiers record.

The sickness on the whole was mostly cold/flu/pneumonia type, probably due to the living conditions on the battle fronts. There were a couple of instances of "Trench Foot". Injuries were also common, both from battle and from general living. The initial application records also show a lot of dental problems.

The larrikinism of the Aussie soldier also shows through. Apart from the usual AWL, false leave pass and absent from parade stuff which nearly every O/R seems to have, there are a couple of quirky items. One man was charged with "Swimming in the sea". Another was charged for hitching a lift on a wagon when he should have been marching! Yet another was charged with creating a nuisance!, and at least one charged with failing to salute.

One man accidently shot himself in the foot while fitting a cover to his rifle. Another was shot accidently, while minding his own business at a home camp. It turns out that machinegun instruction was being carried out in another part of the camp to a group of officers. The instructing sergeant was showing them how to use automatic fire with a belt. To do so, at least one round needed to be in place for the action being demonstrated to work. As there was no blank ammunition available for instruction, and hadn’t been for quite some time, it became common practice to take a live round and “empty” it and use that for demonstration purposes. Well of course the inevitable happened, the instructor takes his “blank” round from his pocket, fits it to the gun, pulls the trigger and BANG...followed by OW!!!!!!!!!! (Actually TWO OWs..another man was also wounded from the same round) Apparently the instructing sergeant looked “surprised”.

Full Court of enquiry ensues......result... Accident!

The war diaries of the units also make interesting reading. I have found records that units were selling "fat", apparently to their HQ to make some money. Also paper and some tins.

One Unit commander in May 1918 notes that indents for underwear have increased dramatically, and determined that soldiers were giving their underwear to locals to have them washed, then the units were being moved forward so fast that they couldn't collect them again, hence they put in for new sets.

There are records of Signal Corps training to use pigeons.

One of the Routine Orders I found, that was to be read to the men included in a "matter of fact" fashion the brief story of a Canadian Soldier who had deserted, been found in Paris 5 months later, was court martialled and shot. It named the soldier.

Another gave the information that the left hand salute to Warrant Officers was to cease and that all saluting was now to be done with the right hand...unless the soldiers couldn’t use or didn’t have a right hand, in which case the left hand salute was to be used in all cases.

I didn’t even know about the left hand salute to Warrant Officers!

Although I knew quite a bit about WW1 before hand, I am not an expert by ANY stretch of the imagination, I have found that reading the actual records of these men and their exploits is fascinating!

I wonder what else I will find??????

Regards

Brian

[WhiteStarLine]

Thanks for this very interesting post Brian.

I am not aware of this unit and cannot find it on the WW1 unit war diaries http://www.awm.gov.a....asp?levelID=90. Each Australian Infantry Division had a Divisional Signals Company that in turn permanently attached signal sections to infantry brigades. For example, my grandfather was in 4th section, 3 Division Signals Company so he spent all of 1918 with 11th Brigade. The Light Horse had something similar. I suspect you are onto something with your suggestion that this was a pre-war militia unit and each man enlisted into the AIF and was allocated to whatever final unit they served with. My grandfather enlisted pre WW1 into the Kennedy Infantry Regiment in Far North Queensland, was sent to Port Moresby, returned and joined the artillery, then transferred into the Royal Engineers (Signals) in England before going to France in December 1917.

I am more than happy to help and if you shoot me half a dozen names I will do some checking. I have been researching my grandfather's service for the last 5 months by comparing his letters home, photo album and so on with the 3rd Division unit war diary and the 11th Brigade war diary. I also have a copy of Sapper Dadswell's memoirs, from 5th Division Signal Company and I highly recommend this. His son still lives in Canberra and is a fascinating source of anecdotes.

Incidentally, Regimental Funds sold comforts to the men during active service, dripping (fat) being one of them. Paper and cardboard were returned to higher units (recycled) and the value recorded as salvage.

As far as I know Warrant Officers were not saluted. The saluting you refer to was promulgated in 1918 and also applied to warrant officers:

Abolition of the left handed salute(Extract Army Order 211 of 1918):

The left-hand salute by warrant officers, non-commissioned officers and men is abolished.

The salute will be given by all ranks with the right hand.

When saluting to the side the head will be turned towards the person saluted.

The other thing you may find interesting to research with signallers is Popham panels (signaller to aeroplane and vice versa) and messenger dogs. Here's an example from when my grandfather's unit at Villers-Bretonneux:

Pigeons and messenger dogs were working satisfactorily. However, dog no 127 was released from the company in line at 5:45 pm failed to return and was found at 8:25 am next morning 3,500 yards away in the 43

^rd

Battalion area. The dog had been badly gassed.

[wheelsjbl]

WhiteStar Line

You are of course quite correct with the saluting procedure, I re-read the actual passage again PROPERLY, and it is the passage you quoted that I had seen and in paraphrasing I got it wrong. In any event I hadn't heard of left hand saluting by ANYONE before hand, so still learned something new.

I am fairly sure now that the 30th Signals unit, also sometimes referred to in documents as the 30th Engineers, WAS militia and I can find no real reference to it anywhere except in the records I have been specifically looking at. I even know their address, it was "Drill Hall, Wright Street Perth." Looks like a trip into the State Library is on the cards to find an old map which might show exactly on Wright Street it is. I know the area and it certainly isn't there Now!

The boss of the unit seems to have been a Major T.C. WILSON, and I have tracked him down to be Major Thomas Charles Wilson, who was a relatively "big wig" in Signals during the war. I have his service record and a few other odds and sods. The two brother I referred to ( and 1 son) were the TUCKETTs. Francis John & Lewis. The son of Francis was Francis Curtis Tuckett. There were a couple of other family members involved in the war as well and I was able to find letters relating to the family and requests for home leave etc to assist with family matters. Just in those 3 guys alone are 2 MMs and 2 MCs not to metion at least 4 MIDs!

Thanks for the offer of help & the info you have given, I may take you up on the offer at a later date. At present I am simply doing the basic leg work of ID-ing the guys first. The 8 or 9 I have left to find (depends if 1 is actually a duplicate)are causing me some difficuly because I believe the names I have been given are incorrect in some fashion. The are not uncommon names, if correct, and have many variations which makes it virtually impossible to find with any certainty without trolling through hundreds of pages in thousands of records. I am being invited to the place where the actual rememberance board is kept at present, in the near future and hope to get a definitive list of names from it.

I have been able to track down some incorrect names by the "brute force" method of trying every combination I can think of, then going through all the records by index and individually checking each WA soldier. Sometimes all I find is a reference on the discharge sheet that they were discharged to 30 Signals. Sometimes I get a bit luckier and find a "return of equipment" voucher from 30 Sigs when the men enlist in the AIF. This then confirms I have the right guy, but it involved checking hundreds, if not thousands of pages of records.

As for the Popham panels, I have found references to them, but have not as yet found references to dogs. [Haven't found the order that went to "Captain Blackadder" either re the shooting of pigeons ]

[wheelsjbl]

UPDATE

It has been a while since I started on this project. I was originally asked by Major Graham DONLEY RFD (Ret'd) to assist him in researching this Signal Company more because I was more computer savvy than he was rather than because of my military knowledge (Which is better than the average civilian, but nothing like what I see here every day).

I am please to report that of the 92 names on the Board (originally thought to be 93) I was able to identify and obtain records for 89 men! As a result of the wealth of material I was able to discover, not only is the Board being restored but a book is being written to accompany the unveiling of the restored Board, possibly on Anzac Day next year. I was fortunate to have been asked to assist with the production of this book. Given the comparatively small number of persons likely to be interested in a book of this kind, it will not be published as such, but will be professionally printed and produced in a limited number for those interested and also for such organisations as the AWM, Signals Association, Perth Army Museum to be used as a reference. The West Australian Branch of the Royal Australian Signals Association is taking an active part.

The OC of the Company back in 1912 and also a major part of the Australian Signals during WW1 was a Major T.C. WILSON. Major DONLEY has tracked down and met his Grand-daughter, from Tasmania, and they regularly write to each other. This has had a beneficial effect on both sides. The Grand-daughter knew almost nothing of WILSON's war & pre war service and was surprised and grateful to receive that information. In return we have obtained a few personal photographs of WILSON and also background information not available from general sources. It is hoped she will attend the Dawn Service on Anzac Day next year here in Perth and also receive a copy of this book.

Additionally if anyone is interested in the history of "SIGNALS" in Australia, Major Donley has just produced a book entitled "Australian Corps of Signallers 1906-1912" detailing the first independent Signals Unit outside the UK. (Canada & India both believe they had the first, but I am assured that privilige belongs to Australia!) It is produced in the same manner as the proposed 30th Sigs book and is available for a modest fee if anyone is interested. (PM me if you may want one & I will pass on the details)

So ALL Go over here!

[Guest]

Hello!

 

I have just joined the forum today to respond to this post, and it won't let me send a private message, so I am hoping you might get some kind of notification.

 

I'm a relative of the Tucketts, and would be really interested in the information you've put together. 

 

Hope to hear from you.

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Rankamateur, and welcome to the Forum!

 

I think you have to have made five posts before you can send or receive personal messages, so it shouldn't be too long before you qualify

 

Hello Wheelsjbl

 

The Australian Expeditionary Force did not have a unit "30th Signals", so I think other responders are right and that it refers to a militia unit, or drafting unit at home. The fact that the board says "AE" and not "AEF" adds weight to this.

 

Ron

[WhiteStarLine]

Brian has not been on the forum this year and he is well aware that his board refers to pre-WW1 signallers.  He extensively researched this and his research appears in the 124 page book Australian CORPS OF SIGNALLERS 1906 – 1912.  Many of these men went on to serve with distinction during WW1.  A draft of the book had many references to Tuckett but mainly from official lists rather than anecdotal.  Here are some extracts from the book, which is copyright Major Graham Donley, RFD, (RET’D):

 

"Captain Lewis TUCKETT, MC, MM and 4 times Mentioned in Despatches, on his Application to Enlist dated 25th August 1914, stated that he had been a member of 30th Signal Company (Engineers) for 4 7/12 years, but as this Company was not formed until 1st July 1912, it is apparent that he was a member of Number 8 (Half) Company of the Australian Corps of Signallers for some 2 ½ years and transferred to the 30th Company when the A C of S was disbanded)."

 

"Lieutenant Francis John TUCKETT, MC, (brother to Captain L. TUCKETT, MC, MM) was killed in action in Belgium on 14th October 1916 and was awarded the Military Cross posthumously. His records show that he served in the Victorian Mounted Infantry for 2 years, the Australian Corps of Signallers (Number 8 (Half) Company) for 5 years and then to 30th Signal Company (AE) at the time of his enlistment into the AIF on 3rd March 1916.Another brother, 2LT Phillip TUCKETT was also killed in action.)"

 

"FIFTH MILITARY DISTRICT, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

... ... ...
* TUCKETT, Francis John, Later Lieutenant, awarded Military Cross, Killed in Action
* TUCKETT, Lewis, Later Captain, awarded Military Cross, Military Medal, 4 times MID"
 

 

 

[Guest]

Mate,

 

I went throw my LH DB and found only one men?

 

WOOD    Arthur Richard    1114    A/Cpl    10 LHR    7R Tos Sig RHQ? 10-15 (G) disch 19-10-16 MU defective vision (CMF 1 year)     30 Sig Co     Wool Classer    19    Kojonup WA    8-3-15    RTA 2-9-16    NOK Kojonup WA

 

Milta records show that the 30th Sig Co (AE) was based at Perth WA

 

Commander Capt TC Wilson (1914)

 

2lt FJ Tuckett prov 2/Lt 16-3-13

2/Lt EJ Shepherd prov 2/Lt 1-7-13

 

Other Engineer units in WA were;

 

13th FCE - Guidford

35th Fortress Co - Fremantle
 

Cheers

S.B

Edited 15 July , 2018 by stevebecker

[Guest]

14 hours ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Brian has not been on the forum this year and he is well aware that his board refers to pre-WW1 signallers.  He extensively researched this and his research appears in the 124 page book Australian CORPS OF SIGNALLERS 1906 – 1912.  Many of these men went on to serve with distinction during WW1.  A draft of the book had many references to Tuckett but mainly from official lists rather than anecdotal.  Here are some extracts from the book, which is copyright Major Graham Donley, RFD, (RET’D):

 

"Captain Lewis TUCKETT, MC, MM and 4 times Mentioned in Despatches, on his Application to Enlist dated 25th August 1914, stated that he had been a member of 30th Signal Company (Engineers) for 4 7/12 years, but as this Company was not formed until 1st July 1912, it is apparent that he was a member of Number 8 (Half) Company of the Australian Corps of Signallers for some 2 ½ years and transferred to the 30th Company when the A C of S was disbanded)."

 

"Lieutenant Francis John TUCKETT, MC, (brother to Captain L. TUCKETT, MC, MM) was killed in action in Belgium on 14th October 1916 and was awarded the Military Cross posthumously. His records show that he served in the Victorian Mounted Infantry for 2 years, the Australian Corps of Signallers (Number 8 (Half) Company) for 5 years and then to 30th Signal Company (AE) at the time of his enlistment into the AIF on 3rd March 1916.Another brother, 2LT Phillip TUCKETT was also killed in action.)"

 

"FIFTH MILITARY DISTRICT, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

... ... ...
* TUCKETT, Francis John, Later Lieutenant, awarded Military Cross, Killed in Action
* TUCKETT, Lewis, Later Captain, awarded Military Cross, Military Medal, 4 times MID"
 

 

 

 

Thanks so much. I would like to try to get hold of the book. I had a bit of a google but couldn't find it, but I will try a bit harder now I have the correct name.

 

I have some information about their involvement in mounted rifle groups over in Victoria, and another brother who died in 1912 was secretary of rifle clubs attached to the Dept of Defence in Perth (where he worked) so I am quite interested in the pre-WW1 signallers information, its something I know very little about. 

 

They had another brother in WA who worked for the telegraph service and belonged to various rifle clubs, but for various reasons (perhaps age, health, dependents) he didn't enlist in the great war.

[WhiteStarLine]

The Army Museum of WA has a copy, or did 10 years ago:

 

https://armymuseumwa.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Foundation-News-Dec08-Jan09.pdf.  See page 8.

 

[wheelsjbl]

Hi all. Haven't been on here for quite some time (actually I forgot all about this site...oops) I see there is at least ONE person with an interest in this unit and particularly about the Tucketts.

 

If anyone still on here has any questions they can contact me directly on my "spare" email account   asimov6@hotmail.com

 

I also have news and photographs from a memorial parade conducted here in WA for the men of this Section who were KIA and also, from memory, 7 NEW memorial plaques installed on the walk of remembrance in Kings Park here in Perth a few years ago.

 

I also have a "book" which is basically my own research and including bits and pieces from others that I came across during my original research, in electronic form, about 30th Sigs and also a bit about 4th Section, 3rd Div Signal Company AIF. NOTE: These are NOT published books and are not for sale anywhere, they are basically compilations of various research put into a sort of narrative form for non researchers and are fully acknowledged as such. I am/was not trying to pass off anyone else's hard work as my own. 

 

I gave away numerous disks to relatives of the 30th Sig Company members at the above mentioned Memorial Service for their reference and as a base for them to begin their own research.If anyone is interested in getting a kick-start into researching anyone or anything 30th Sig related I am happy to provide a copy, with the above caveats!

[WhiteStarLine]

Brian, welcome back!  To think we were happily corresponding in 2011 ...

 

I'll get in touch and share research via your email.