shippingsteel Posted 12 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2012 S>S, the attached are from Sigge's bayonets - http://www.sigges-ba....de/index2.html - just in case you don' t have them! Hey thanks Trajan, that is one site that I have never been to, so I will very much enjoy exploring that when I get a chance. Those Turks are all new to me also. I will take their details and add them to my list - I am hoping to get it up too the 100 examples which sounds like a good round number - but when is enough.? The pattern of production seems to have been covered now though, as I'm not getting any 'new' dates or makers, just duplicates of what I have already found. I think I'm going to have to talk to some long-time collectors to see exactly what rare examples they might have stashed away in the bowels of their collections.! The M1913's have an interesting local makers mark but it is heavily 'stylised' making it very hard to work out. But from researching other fields I have it pegged. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 13 January , 2012 Share Posted 13 January , 2012 Hello chaps, just away to catch a few Zs but thought you might like a few more Turks (alas no turkish makers markings on these) & some Germans that I have added to the collection. Trajan, congrats on the M1913 mate, cant wait to see the pics as mine is rather tatty. Jscott, really nice uncut M1903 (you got 1 spare?) S/S, how many bloody Aussie bayonets have you got mate, green with envy Cheers, Aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2012 Thought you might like a few more Turks (alas no turkish makers markings on these) & some Germans that I have added to the collection. Uh - Oh, Aleck - Looks like you've gone past the point of no return now. May have to seriously consider rewriting that "Interests" column yet again.!! I blame those Turked bayonets (or even the ersatz). Once you start on those it gets the ball rolling, and the next thing you know its counselling - then later, THERAPY ... And "how many bloody Aussie bayonets" have I got.? Well I got "some", but that will never be enough 'cause there's still "special" ones out there that I come across. (If I didn't find them I wouldn't need to buy them so "one-day" I guess I will just stop looking). But oh yeah, did I mention that Aussie bayonets are my "favourites" as well.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 Aleck. That is yet another very nice set of pointy-things - and I especially like the sawback removed, which are not that common a find! That high ears 98/05 is also lovely! The Turks also look very good - let me get some photos up one day of the monstrosities I find over here: my 'M 1913' is nice to have, fills in a gap, and the blade is good but the pommel and crossguard are almost beyond redemption... That last Turk you have, for a FAL, is a nice one: postdates my Garand M5's so I think 1960's, but the scabbard looks nice and maybe re-used from an earlier 'Mauser' type bayonet - check the fitting. I had a thought/feeling that these Turkish FAL bayonets were supplied in MKE or MHK marked scabbards, of which I have one spare - for a FAL? it's too long for the Garands... Mind you, as S>S said, once you get into Turkish bayonets then it will never stop... Have you got Otto'sCD-ROM catalogue of these yet? I haven't, but will do so when finances finally readjust after the seasonal excesses and the car tax is paid (= TL 1,000 for 6 months = GBP 350 = 1/4 my monthly salary...!!!). Cheers for now, with, for your delectation, a photo from Wikkipedia allegedly of Turkish troops in 1917 OR during the Turkish War of Independence (the hats are right for 1917 onwards), with some nice 98/05's! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 And for you, S>S, a new one on Turkish internet, a shortened one originally made in AH 1312, with almost all the piccies available of this - and yours for only, ONLY ---- TL 500 = AUD 260 = GBP 175 = USD 268... Nice marking and lovely scabbard though! Trajan Two more piccies in the next post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 AGHHH!!! dont mention cars!!! I had to scrap my old one and buy a new one as the repair bill for it was more than the car was worth, I couldnt afford to buy anything outright so Im stuck paying for it in finance for the next few years. That and monthly car insurance payments I can kiss goodbye to fair chunk of my pay for a long time to come . Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 Her's two but one more follows! Nice piccie of markings which I still don't understand (well , I get the serial number, but the leaf motif?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 And, S>S, here are the usual 'bikini' markings! Trajan PS: A PS as this is off topic, but Gaz, sympathy with you over the motor: we run a 20 yr.old diesel piggot 407, for the school and shopping run, and a 13 yr.old petrol LR Discovery I, for long distance travel (i.e., my research work) - and that's the one where the b****r of the car tax comes in as it's done on engine size... Added to which petrol is MORE expensive here than in the UK and salaries are lower (and even more annoyingly, bayonet prices are also higher here... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 14 January , 2012 Share Posted 14 January , 2012 S/S & Trajan, it is you 2 to blame for this new area of collecting, with all those lovely pics of turk pointy things, I wasa quite happy with the Brit/commowealth blades (altho new additions were getting moe expensive), you better hope wor lass never finds out where you both live On a sadder note she made me sell my Sterling mk4 but good news is it allows me to reinvest in a turk rifle to stick some of these on German blades came from too much alcohol & the daft notion that it would be nice to have a full length version of a few of the butchered butchers & M1903 blade. Must get her to change the password when I am slightly worse for wear with drink, Cheers, Aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 14 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2012 And, S>S, here are the usual 'bikini' markings! (and even more annoyingly, bayonet prices are also higher here...) Gotta love the first, ha.! ... and you really gotta HATE the latter ... (my condolences are with you my son) ... and you too Gaz ... And Aleck you can expect no sympathy from us regarding your "self-inflicted pain and suffering" (those mrs can be tough!) - I think we warned you, didn't we.? I'm way ahead of you Trajan with those bayo pics, that one was on before maybe a month or two ago, and I've already got it "finger printed" and serial numbered.! I've got it listed as #20 and I'm now up to number 72 on the survey, so progress is being made all the time, maybe I'll be getting to the 100 sooner than I thought.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 ... Aleck you can expect no sympathy from us regarding your "self-inflicted pain and suffering" (those mrs can be tough!) - I think we warned you, didn't we.? Aleck, worse thing of all for me is that my Turkish is so bad that 'er indoors does the on-line bank accounts and so I have to be a bit careful... ... I'm way ahead of you Trajan with those bayo pics, that one was on before maybe a month or two ago, and I've already got it "finger printed" and serial numbered.! I've got it listed as #20 and I'm now up to number 72 on the survey, so progress is being made all the time, maybe I'll be getting to the 100 sooner than I thought.? Whayay, mon, dinna know how I missed that one! I saw it on Giddigiddyor yesterday... Ok, strictly speaking, stats wise, you don't have a lot to go on. However, one of my fields of research is Roman soldier's discharge documents, of which we have about 1,000 total for the gods know how many who got these in a year - there were some 200,000 plus soldiers serving in any one year, over a 200 year period, with the time-served retiring every 25 years or so. The point being that we can see patterns in the 1,000 surviving discharge documents we have, just as you can see patterns in bayonet makers and types you know about. So, you'll never get a large enough sample or enough information to PROVE anything (e.g., how many 1890's were made in total as opposed to how many have survived and how many you know about), but you will see a pattern emerging among the survivors (as in tossing coins for heads and tails) - and that is where I applaud your work and the observations, rather than conclusions, that will eventually emerge! A glass of kirmizi sarap raised in your direction (obscured by fallingsnow at the moment!) Cheers, Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 16 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Ok, strictly speaking, stats wise, you don't have a lot to go on .... An interesting comparison you make and illustrates your point perfectly .... you must be honing up those educational skills again, hey MrT.! Does put things into perspective, there was around 950,000 Mauser rifles produced for the Turks in four different models over about twenty years. That includes the M1887, M1890, M1893 and the M1903 models of long rifle, which would have been supplied with bayonets marked with the script. When you look at the numbers it does make you wonder where all that leftover milsurp ends up, although you do see quite a lot of the cutdown types. It would be interesting to know just how many have survived intact out of that original number, and then wonder how they missed out on being 'turked'.! Anyway it doesn't bother me where the survey ends up, its been a good process to go through actually putting together some data from the hard evidence. I've also been doing the same with Turkish ammunition, and it is surprising how a picture can quite quickly emerge from what was once a great unknown. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 January , 2012 Share Posted 26 January , 2012 S>S, Tea-break time, and found these while doing a quick scour of internet using key words süngü and kasatura. I'll let you do the honors as I must get back to work, although the second one looks rather on the grubby/difficult side... Good luck with it! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 26 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2012 Thanks for that T. These are both WKC made, and the one with the green border has also been on before. Seems they don't often sell at those outlandish prices.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2012 Share Posted 27 January , 2012 These are both WKC made... I thought they looked to be similar marks. So, Weyersburg KC is still the leading maker amongst the ones on your listing? For all types? ... the one with the green border has also been on before. Seems they don't often sell at those outlandish prices. Sadly it seems that they do... Both of these were internet cached... Would have liked the second one if I had seen it on time as it was full length and had its leather scabbard... And 'only' TL 500!!! Trajan PS: Hope you had an enjoyable Australia Day - and tell the PM that flat heels are generally more useful in escape situations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 27 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2012 Hope you had an enjoyable Australia Day - and tell the PM that flat heels are generally more useful in escape situations! Thanks for your kind thoughts - and there were some interesting moments.! I kicked back cleaning up some bayonets and watching the cricket on TV. What better way to spend our National Day than paying respects to our former serviceman by restoring a couple of their old weapons to there former glory.? Both examples that I worked on were seriously 'old soldiers' - GW vintage bayonets that stayed in service right through beyond WW2. (photos coming soon) Yes, WKC is still the most common producer of Turkish bayonets surveyed, currently running at 41% with Sauer second at 29%, the other 4 make up the rest. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 29 January , 2012 Share Posted 29 January , 2012 Here are a few more new additions to the turk part of the collection (S/S, having trouble photographing the markings as its overcast & flash keeps obscuring them, will try again later mate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 31 January , 2012 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2012 Quite a grouping you're putting together Aleck - I particularly like the M1887, which are getting a bit scarcer now. Would like to see the markings when possible. Here is another M1890 that I picked up. Its just so hard to find the Turkish bayonets in clean condition, that I jumped on this straight away, and with scabbard as a bonus.Mainly wanted this one for its extra clear markings, which as you've seen throughout this thread are virtually impossible to find 100% intact. The 'turked' ones are very rough.Anyway I was happy to grab this set when I could. If I can collect all the makers with their marks in this good a condition, I will be extremely pleased. It might take a while.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 31 January , 2012 Share Posted 31 January , 2012 I just missed out on one of those M1874 Peabody bayonets a few days ago at a car boot sale/flea market. Saw the guy wrapping it up to give to the buyer...that was the only piece of militaria there I saw all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 2 February , 2012 Share Posted 2 February , 2012 S/S that M1890s a beauty mate, sure is in great condition. Where did you find it? Garron, ended up with 2 of the wooden gripped M1874s (thought 1 had got lost in transit, so bought another, next day the 1st one turned up doh...) Trajan, check your messages bud. Any way here`s a few more new turks & best pic that I could get of markings on 1 of the previous turks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 2 February , 2012 Share Posted 2 February , 2012 That happened with a Chassepot bayonet, I bought a battered example on ebay, it took so long to arrive I forgot it was coming and bought one I saw in a dealers, that was in better condition with scabbard for less... moral is always shop around! Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 February , 2012 Share Posted 3 February , 2012 ... Trajan, check your messages bud. Any way here`s a few more new turks & best pic that I could get of markings on 1 of the previous turks Those are some seriously very nice bayonets Sawdoc! I rarely see anything approaching the condition of these - and never anything pre-1890... I especially liked what seems to be an EB 87 you have, in the last photograph - does it have a crescent and star on the inside of the crossguard? I Saw one on Turk e-bay at Xmas time, but after buying pressies, paying car tax, etc., not enough in the bank to get it Ah well, Sunday is Antique market day, so I live in hope for that! BTW: the last ersatz I bought, on Turk e-bay, was an EB 9 and not, as I though, a better version of the EB 3 I already had... Will check messages next - we had/have registration for the new term on Wednesday, yesterday and today, and I had to deal with a load of advisees.... Şerefe! (As we say over here!) Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 3 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2012 Any way here`s a few more new turks & best pic that I could get of markings on 1 of the previous turks Thanks for those Aleck. I think its Simson on left and Sauer on right, but I'm not sure on the dates. Do both dates look to be the same, and are the last 2 numerals like in " II ".? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 3 February , 2012 Share Posted 3 February , 2012 This is what happens when you dont keep an interest in check!! Part of a friends collection. Sean Be Warned... I wouldn't mind, but I remember one of you lot saying us Brodie boy's were obsessive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 February , 2012 Share Posted 3 February , 2012 Better make certain I log-out from the page properly before my wife sees that little lot... As regards obsessive collecting... Have any of you visited http://k98.free.fr/? Check the photos.... To collect 109 bayonets of the same basic type (all K98k's, all neatly lined up for the photo's), well, that IS seriously intimidating! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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