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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Six Weeks?


David Filsell

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The "Six Weeks" statistic was about Officers, not just Public School boys. Something that might be a bit of a surprise: The majority of British Officers who served in the Great War did not go to a public school (based on the 1914 HMC Schools).

SMEBE pages 234-235 show that 275,752 Commissioned British Officers served during the war (excluding Indian Army and Royal Defence Corps and Dominions)

Seldon and Walsh's* tables show that 177,654 Public School boys served. Their definition of a Public School is as wide as possible** based on HMC schools today,

If the cohort was limited to HMC Schools in 1914 the figure is 117,653

To save you the maths, of all British Army Commissions during the Great War, the Public School educated Officers account for 42.7% of the total. This figure is probably too still high as thousands of Public School boys served in the ranks, particularly in the UPS battalions and the Class Corps units. If British Officers in the Indian Army were added to the denominator of the equation, the number would be lower still.

The composition of the Officer corps changed dramatically during the war simply because there were not enough young men to fill the ranks of the killed and wounded. Commissioning men from the Ranks was the only solution.

MG

Edited with HMC numbers for today v 1914

*Public Schools and The Great War by Anthony Seldon and David Walsh

** Includes all HMC Schools today rather than just the HMC Schools in 1914. This nflates the numbers.

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** Includes all HMC Schools today rather than just the HMC Schools in 1914. This again inflates the numbers.

I would agree that if a strict definition is taken you are quite correct. Of course HMC was relatively small then and the number of schools concerned is very considerably enlarged if today's HMC schools are taken as the basis. In 1914, for example, HMC included none of the RC 'public' schools, such as Ampleforth, Stonyhurst, Downside etc etc, yet such schools generally drew from the same sort of families as many of the then HMC schools.

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I would agree that if a strict definition is taken you are quite correct. Of course HMC was relatively small then and the number of schools concerned is very considerably enlarged if today's HMC schools are taken as the basis. In 1914, for example, HMC included none of the RC 'public' schools, such as Ampleforth, Stonyhurst, Downside etc etc, yet such schools generally drew from the same sort of families as many of the then HMC schools.

To avoid any confusion, the 117,000 figure includes all HMC Schools in 1914 [edited]. If we included HMC schools today the ratio served as a % of all Officers would be 64.4% i.e. it is the widest parameter and includes all the schools mentioned above. It is difficult to see where any more Public School boys could have come from. On this widest of measures, still one in every three British Officers did not attend a public school.

The limit factor was simply the number of men who had attended a Public School. There were simply nowhere near enough of them to even staff half of the Officer corps of the British Army, While they may well have been skewed toward the teeth arms, the irony is that they suffered higher casualties that in turn required more replacements, thereby draining the limited pool at a faster rate.

Officer fatal casualty rates were twice that of the average for ORs for the whole war. I suspect if one could isolate the Public School cohorts for the infantry in 1914, 1915, 1916 etc and their stats would make one weep.

Edited.

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'...upper class public schoolboys, certainly, but ingrained with a sense of duty...'

Melvin, I fully agree with you - I really enjoy this book and funnily enough was also struck by the same points (particularly concerning Lewis-Stempel's style) - but why the 'but' in the quotation above? As if being an upper-class public schoolboy was/is a failing, to be set against a list of redeeming virtues?

'And' may have been a better conjunction...?

- brummell

Point taken. The 'but' went in perhaps because of the generally negative image now of the public school ethos of that time (and of today?) - a reflection of the privileged lifestyle from which most of the young officers came.

Yes, 'and' would have been better.

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I certainly don't think the ethos of patriotism and duty was by any means just the question of public school education anymore that intelligence was. They also featured very strongly in the non public schooling system, the Scouts, boys Brigade and similar organisation. As late as the late 50s and early 60's both were mainstays in my own secondary modern schooling, along with fierce discipline. Capable lads also took GCE examinations at Queens Road Secondary Modern and gained apprenticeships to take examinations as tough as any degree course. (and with considerable success it must be said).Pride in nation and empire ran through Britain even then like a strong thread. And, then as now, attendance at public school was for the privileged however you wish to define it. - as were commissions into the forces and entry into the professions where, rightly or wrongly, they often still predominate. Only Eton Mess seems truly to bridge the divide!

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  • 4 years later...

MrsA spotted this book in a York charity shop and bought it 'on spec'. I am 85 pages into it and confess that I am rather enjoying it. My favourite discovery so far is that: "Officers of Field Rank on entering balloons are not expected to wear spurs".

 

Ian

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Chris Baker and others here have pointed out, that the moving story about a young officer that introduces the book appears to be a complete work of fiction. The young man 's life and details are given in that book, but there appears to be no evidence to suggest that he " 2nd Lt Gerald Lewes, 10th Bn RWF died on 13th Nov 1916"   existed at all. I tried myself to find evidence of the man's existence, and failed completely.

 

Given that the query was raised on line  before I had access to a physical copy of the book, I decided not to buy it because I just could not take seriously an author who found it necessary to invent  such a story in a supposedly serious book. 

 

Keith

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16 minutes ago, keithmroberts said:

Chris Baker and others here have pointed out, that the moving story about a young officer that introduces the book appears to be a complete work of fiction. The young man 's life and details are given in that book, but there appears to be no evidence to suggest that he " 2nd Lt Gerald Lewes, 10th Bn RWF died on 13th Nov 1916"   existed at all. I tried myself to find evidence of the man's existence, and failed completely.

 

Given that the query was raised on line  before I had access to a physical copy of the book, I decided not to buy it because I just could not take seriously an author who found it necessary to invent  such a story in a supposedly serious book. 

 

Keith

Thanks for that, Keith. When I searched the forum, I found many 'hits' and couldn't read all of them. I shall continue reading but will keep a salt crock handy.

 

Ian

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Cheers Ian. I would be delighted if someone could vindicate the author by finding evidence that those of us who tried to follow up the story have got it wrong. There's no pleasure in denigrating an author. I'll buy a pint or even two at the conference for anyone who finds verifiable evidence. That's a firm offer from a tight fisted yorkshire exile.

 

Keith

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16 hours ago, keithmroberts said:

I decided not to buy it because I just could not take seriously an author who found it necessary to invent  such a story in a supposedly serious book. 

 

Keith

With respect, Keith, I think you and Chris have got things slightly askew. I re-read the intro last night (I hadn't paid it much attention before) and it is clearly a literary device rather than an attempt to mislead. 'Lewes' is killed in action yet his thoughts and feelings immediately before have been faithfully recorded!! Rather strange? Anyone reading the book will notice that there are over 800 reference notes throughout the book but not a single one in the 'Prologue'.

 

I confess to employing the same device when I gave a talk on some bodies which were discovered during road widening operations near Roxburgh Castle. It was a mass grave (some with hands tied behind their back) and dating from the times when the castle changed hands regularly between the Scots and English. I took a photograph of a particularly fine skull of a young man: the skull was perfect and I was particularly pleased with the image. When I put the slide up, it was quite dramatic and I introduced 'Jamie' who had been taken unawares by the Scots during a foraging expedition. I then went on to describe the facts of the dig, the gold ring which mysteriously went missing and the archaeological details of the dig. I did not expect, for one moment, that anybody would believe that the skull actually belonged to someone whose name and mode of death I knew. A flight of fancy calculated to draw listeners/ readers in. 

 

Cheers,

 

Ian

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A fair point Ian, but this was represented as a serious book.

 

Keith

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I would say that, given its 800+ references and extensive bibliography, it may have pretensions to seriousness. On the other hand, it doesn't have any grand plan and is anecdotal rather than trying to reveal hidden truths. As bedtime reading, I find it does the job. Crusty 'Old Sweats' may harrumph at all the references to Sassoon, Graves, Douie et al.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian

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Let's not go into bedtime reading:hypocrite:

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I read it a couple of years ago during my commute (of blessed memory) and thoroughly enjoyed it.

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