militariaone Posted 14 February , 2011 Share Posted 14 February , 2011 Greetings all, I ordered a new (Indian according to the sticker on it, not seen in the photos) made reproduction Robbins of Dudley Push Dagger and sheath, so I could compare it to one I purchased in 1985 (I believe to be original, from a pawn shop for $150.00). As I have not seen this R of D style sheath in any of the published works out there, (Except on the Repro's website) I thought I'd share the comparison with the forum. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted 14 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2011 The reproduction push dagger and sheath arrived last week from IMA's website ($59.00). First let's compare the sheaths. The biggest difference in the sheaths is the means at which the brass stud which the sheaths' retaining straps hook to when closed. The reproduction uses a standard screw and the original uses the standard R of D peened rivet. The repro has that "new leather holster" smell that the original has since lost. The repro's belt loop on the back has not folded down as flat and causes a slight appearance of size differences, but I assure you the repro's sheath is very similar to the original's dimensions. The last difference is in the length of the aforementioned brass studs. Not wishing to create the perfect "how to fake it tutorial" the specifics of last bit shall remain a mystery. Please, review the photo and you'll see a difference in their lengths. Regards, Lance Lastly to the push daggers themselves, I don't believe the makers were trying for the perfect forgery (Er, I meant reproduction). This is based upon the selection of where the R of D's logo is placed. It's on the wrong end of the handle (The Top), the fonts are a bit larger than the original's, and the repro's logo runs in the wrong direction/orientation. Other than the logo's challenges, you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference by weight, size, difference in fullers, or patina. I wish more modern manufactures would take the time to flaw all reproductions in a similar manner. OK, "release the hounds" I'm prepared for any and all of your valued comments. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 14 February , 2011 Share Posted 14 February , 2011 Thanks! An excellent guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Brock Posted 14 February , 2011 Share Posted 14 February , 2011 This is the first example of that type of sheath that I've ever seen barring the repros that are sold online (sheath only). The old sheath seems extremely well-preserved for Great War era. Could it, just the sheath, be a later replacement? No one will ever mistake one of mine for an original as I stamp them with my mark and date them. That didn't stop one collector from posting a picture of one calling it a "...theater-made punch dagger." I wrote and set him straight. To mark the name "Robbins" on a replica seems tacky to me, especially given the seeming ineptitude of the one doing the marking. If one is going to forge, at least do a credible job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militariaone Posted 14 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2011 Greetings Dan, first I'm a big fan of your website and always enjoyed your frank take on these weapons. I've spent most of my time looking and never posting on various websites. This was my first and still favorite R of D, simply because of the sheath. Since I have not seen any posted or mentioned in print quite like it I figured it was high time to put it out there. If you compare the scabbard with other R of D's I own (See new photo) the quality of the workmanship, and finish are superior. I've often wondered these years if this was indeed a one off or a replacement. Then I started to see Atlanta Cutlery and IMA with the same style (repro) scabbard as the one I bought in 85, I'd guess about fives years ago? The only reason I would err on the side of it being original with the punch dagger is the method of peening and materials used on the Brass rivet, it's the same as the others' pictured. Thank you, again for your website and too for your thoughts. Regards, Lance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Brock Posted 15 February , 2011 Share Posted 15 February , 2011 Thank you, Lance. My God. You're going to turn my head. An awesome bunch of knives with leather work that shows someone valued them over the years. Color me envious - in the extreme. Most I've seen seem to belong to the "I found this in Granddad's toolbox" category with sheaths like worn cardboard. Someday I'll figure out a jig to cut the double fuller. I suspect its only purpose was to obviate the need to pay attention to a straight median ridge. Perhaps (Most certainly) I'm just cynical. It's nice to see that I'm not the only RofD anorak. And thank you for posting these photos. As a comical aside, BUDK, a mall-ninja supplier sells a knockoff of the dagger with the same handle as the punch dagger. They reckon it to be WW2 and German(?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 26 February , 2011 Share Posted 26 February , 2011 Here's another for the mix. I bought this today. It was confiscated from a soldier by the sellers grandfather who was in the Navy and was bringing troops back to the UK at the end of the War. The scabbard was burnt in the Blitz when it survived a house being bombed. Some minor lines / cracks in the aluminium may be as a result of a proximity to fire. No makers mark but in the Robbins of Dudley style. Two grooves on top and bottom of the blade. Point is still sharp. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip666 Posted 19 February Share Posted 19 February hello. i recently bought a robbins dudley push dagger from a friend who could not find the sheath for it so i had 1 made by a friend from photos found on the net (it wasnt supposed to be identical by any means only really to stop it snagging other items). he has now found the original sheath but it looks more like a pistol holster but im assured it was the original that came with the dagger and also i have seen copies of this on the net. did they come with a choice of sheath ? thank you very much. chip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewebleyman Posted 19 February Share Posted 19 February I've seen them with both types of scabbard/sheath so it is very possible that the one your friend has now found is correct and genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip666 Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September On 26/02/2011 at 20:05, Gunner Bailey said: Here's another for the mix. I bought this today. It was confiscated from a soldier by the sellers grandfather who was in the Navy and was bringing troops back to the UK at the end of the War. The scabbard was burnt in the Blitz when it survived a house being bombed. Some minor lines / cracks in the aluminium may be as a result of a proximity to fire. No makers mark but in the Robbins of Dudley style. Two grooves on top and bottom of the blade. Point is still sharp. John Just browsing a catalogue for an upcoming militaria auction, quite fancy one of these, so doing a bit of homework led me to this thread….looks like the same knife to me, similar cracking on the blade and damage to the holster. https://www.littletonauctions.com/catalogue/lot/d2ff8db1b9b1afbb825e5ee96d0d693f/2a6fa85538c56e3991b429b74f737ad8/arms-militaria-lot-333/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip666 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September Yes I've seen and read the story on this 1 before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September Interesting how the auction house doesn’t picture the underside where the stamp should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip666 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September I'm sure there were pictures of it a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September I might view it….hard to know how to value if it is “in the style of” if there are no markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip666 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September You can probably ask the au tonight for more pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September That’s a possibility Chip, I wonder if @Gunner Bailey can add anything before the sale on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip666 Posted 26 September Share Posted 26 September Auction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 1 October Share Posted 1 October An update….did £420 on the hammer, so over £500 with fees…..no markings. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 1 October Share Posted 1 October On 26/02/2011 at 20:05, Gunner Bailey said: Some minor lines / cracks in the aluminium may be as a result of a proximity to fire. May perhaps be thermal cracking - differences beween alloy/alluminum and steel expansions - but possibly due to internal corrosion and expansion of/by products of oxidisation ??? I guess both potentially worth watching out for and to try to prevent. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now