Lieutenant/Acting Captain William Victor Palmer Royal West Kent Regiment

[Jerrymurland]

William Palmer went to France in august 1914 and is the diarist quoted in 'Invicta', the regimental history. Apart from the fact that he was MiD in 1915 and wounded in the same year I can find little more about him. He was probably born in 1888 in Kent and possibly died in 1975. He was married with 3 children (Passenger records have him returning from India in March 1924 with his family). If any RWK experts have anything else on him I would be vert grateful. A photograph would be fantastic!!

Jerry

[Jonathan Saunders]

Palmer was wounded on 28th Oct 1914 and was invalided back to UK - I assume pretty soon afterwards.

From memory, I dont think he served in a war theatre again and went through several operations to his knee (I dont know if this was the result of his wound - I have a feeling he fell from his horse with the horse landing on top of him but I dont want to mislead you as I could be mixing him up with someone else).

At this moment I cant say for sure what he did when he was fit to return to service following his wounds - possibly he was an officer at the depot [EDITED: he had been Asst Adj at the Depot when war was declared], but he had done some staff work at the beginning of the war, and I dont know if that means he was destined for staff work in UK.

He might be in a group photo - I will have a look. I can certainly picture his face in my mind so I know I have seen a photo of him.

If you dont hear from me in within 48 hours send me a reminder.

What is your interest in him?

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Jerrymurland]

Jonathan

Thanks for putting me right with the date of his wound! I'll burrow back into Invicta. His MIC indicated he was at the RMC in late 1917 - which fits in with what you are saying. My interest is his diary account of the Aisne encounter. I'm writing a book on the Aisne 1914 and intend using extracts from his diary along with those of the KOSB.

Thanks for your offer of help.

Jerry

[susanhemmings]

From the book I have on the RWK

Oct 28th 1914 - 1st Battalion:

"Much reduced by the fighting of the previous days they had no time to take up a position before the Bhopals with the Germans at their heels were right upon them. Lieut. Gore was killed making a stand on the La Bassee Road, as was CSM Penny also, and in the end most of A and D were carried away in the Bhopals' retreat. They had lost all their officers, Captain Battersby had been killed, Lieut Palmer had been wounded and disabled in fetching D from the reserve trenches and there was no one to take command".

At the back of the book it gives the list of MiD's. Palmer W V is listed as "Captain" so I do not know at what point he went from a wounded Lieut. to a Captain.

That is all I can offer.

Susan

[Jonathan Saunders]

Palmer W V is listed as "Captain" so I do not know at what point he went from a wounded Lieut. to a Captain.

Lt W.V. Palmer qualified for promotion to the rank of Captain in the examinations of 18th and 19th May 1914. He was promoted Temporary Captain & Supernumerary, 15th Nov 1914 (by this time I assume already invalided to UK). In May 1915, whilst on convalescent leave, he is promoted Captain.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[susanhemmings]

Thanks for the valued explanation Jonathan. I am just "copying cold" from a book. (completely clueless really)

It is so valuable to have someone who knows their stuff. One of the great things about this forum.

Regards to you

Susan

[Jonathan Saunders]

Hi Susan - I should have started the sentence with something like "Purely for clarification purposes ... " I am afraid my reply sounded rather abrupt when that hadnt been the intention.

My apologies.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Jerrymurland]

Thanks Susan

What is the title of the book you were copying from?

Jerry

[susanhemmings]

Hi Jonathan,

No need to apologise. I really meant it when I said it is valuable to have someone knowledgeable. Apologies to you if I came across as critical. Definitely not intended.

Jerry: The book I copied from is The Queen's Own - Royal West Kent Regiment 1914-1919 by Captain C. L. Atkinson. Huge thick tome (as they are) of 629 pages,

Susan

[Jerrymurland]

Susan

Is there much about the Aisne Campaign in it? I have 'Invicta' the history of the 1st Battalion only.

Jerry

[susanhemmings]

Jerry,

Just popping out for a mo.

Will look when I get back.

Susan

[susanhemmings]

Hi again Jerry,

Here goes: Chapter 2 of the book deals with The Marne and Aisne and covers pages 29 - 42.

Pages 29 to 34 inclusive deal with The Marne

pages 35 (to 42) the Aisne.

Is there anything specific you are after?

Susan

[Jerrymurland]

Susan

Any chance of a scan of pages 35-42? Save me digging up the volume at the IWM.

Jerry

[Jonathan Saunders]

Jerry - I only had time to look for a photo of Palmer last night and couldnt find one but I have other places to look so havent given up yet. As Susan has pointed you to Atkinson's regimental history and in case this is of interest - photos and brief bios of Gore and Battersby are in Bond of Sacrifice. I think Invicta has a photo of Penny.

I am out again tonight but hope to find sometime to trawl through my QORWK records for further info.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Jonathan Saunders]

There is a group photo of officers in Invicta - W.V. Palmer is in that photograph. Do you have an original copy or a reprint of Invicta?

Circa April 1916, Palmer is appointed an officer instructor to 11th Cadet Battalion at RMC. He is certainly still at RMC in mid-1918 and I believe he remains at RMC until sometime after the Armistice.

In April 1919 he is listed as Adjutant at the Depot. During his time at the Depot he plays for the Cricket XI, typically going in first or second wicket down and as a first or second change bowler.

Re the horse falling on him that I mentioned in an earlier post - I think this was actually Molony (who wrote Invicta). I have tried to check it out but I cant find anything suggesting this was Molony (or Palmer), other I am sure Molony relinquishes his commission shortly after the Armistice due to no longer being fit for service, so please discount my earlier comment.

I will look up Palmer's post-war career in the Regimental History and let you know - I know he retires as a full-Colonel and dies in 1953 or 1954 (not 1975).

Regards,

Jonathan S

[susanhemmings]

Jerry -

PM me your email. Will get scanning and sending to you.

have sent you a PM

Susan

[Jerrymurland]

Jonathan

No I don#t have an original copy of Invicta. Any chance you can scan the regimental photograph with Palmer ar the highest resolution possible please? Thanks for all your help, invaluable

Susan - many thanks, have PMd you.

jerry

[Jonathan Saunders]

I'll take a closer look at the binding and see if it allows for a reasonable scan without weakening the book.

Palmer appears to remain as Adj of the Depot through the twenties. Interestingly when he went to India in 1923/4 as mentioned by you, he may have visited the 1 Bn that was then stationed in India, but I am sure this was not a posting as the inference from the Regimental History is that in the early 1920's atleast, Palmer was still at the Depot.

I can give you more precise dates later if required, but circa 1932-35 Palmer is O.C. Depot. In 1936 he is given command of the 2 Bn (and I assume around the same time he is promoted Lt-Col). He commands the 2 Bn in Palestine during the Arab revolt, and until his period of command ends in mid-1939.

Palmer is then appointed O.C. Army Records at Hounslow (and promoted full-Colonel around this time). At the moment I am assuming he remains in that roll until the end of WW2, or until his retirement, whichever is sooner.

He had twin sons that served with the Regiment in WW2 – both serving with 6th Bn, which had a magnificent record of service in both wars.

2/Lt W.J. Palmer was killed in action in North Africa:

Lt Ronald Palmer was wounded in the attack that killed Brigadier Swifty Howlett (formerly QORWK). There is no further reference to Ronald Palmer in the Regimental history, so I assume this is a Blighty wound, but of course this may now be going far beyond your remit/interest.

W.V. Palmer dies circa 1953/54: the Regimental History up to 1950, was published in 1954 and acknowledges the late Col W.V. Palmer's proof reading.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Jerrymurland]

Thanks for that - all useful bio detail.

jerry

[Jonathan Saunders]

This is very sad. W.V. Palmer had another son who died in a flying accident circa 1945 whilst serving with the AAC.

His surviving son, Ronald Palmer, committed suicide shortly after the end of the war. The cause of his suicide being given as not being able to get over the loss of his identical twin brother.

Can you email me your e-address via members as I have access to further information and photographs.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Jerrymurland]

jonathan

can't send you a message as it looks as though your inbox is full!!

The member Jonathan Saunders cannot receive any new messages

Jerry

[Jonathan Saunders]

Try now!

[jetkins]

Greetings, gentlemen. I do hope the original contributors to this thread are still active, as Lieutenant (later Colonel) W. V. Palmer was my maternal grandfather, and I stumbled upon this thread while googling his name.

I recently rediscovered a beautiful group photograph of Col William Victor Palmer, Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment, his eldest son Lt (later Capt) Robert Victor Douglas Palmer, Glider Pilot Regiment, his younger twin sons 2nd Lts William John Palmer and Ronald Hunter Palmer, RWK, his daughter (and my mother) SO Ethne Mary Palmer, WAAF, and their young sister Susan.

As has already been mentioned above, John was MIA in Tunisia in November 1942, Bob was killed in a crash in the Pyrenees in December 1944, and Ronald tragically took his own life in November 1949 after suffering what I believe would these days be diagnosed as PTSD.

William Victor passed away in June 1953, and Ethne passed away in February 1999, Sue went on to marry Lt-Col Kenneth Dodson, RWK, and one of their sons is Brigadier Mark Dodson (ret'd).

My father, Squadron Leader John Etkins, developed a strong interest in the history of the Royal West Kent Regiment and amassed an impressive collection of regimental medals, which he subsequently auctioned off in the mid 1980's to fund his retirement.

My mother believed this photograph was taken in 1943, but it must have been in the autumn of 1942, given that Robert transferred from the RWK to the GPR in September that year, and John went MIA that November.

[Jonathan Saunders]

Hello Jetkins! Fantastic photo - I have only ever seen this in black and white, newspaper print quality before so Im really pleased to see it in its full glory. I see you're in Texas but I believed John Etkins emigrated to Australia (?) although this did not hinder him developing an enormous interest in the Regiment.

I assume you have a copy of Invicta, which includes part of your Grandfather's diary.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[jetkins]

Hello Jetkins! Fantastic photo - I have only ever seen this in black and white, newspaper print quality before so Im really pleased to see it in its full glory. I see you're in Texas but I believed John Etkins emigrated to Australia (?) although this did not hinder him developing an enormous interest in the Regiment.

I assume you have a copy of Invicta, which includes part of your Grandfather's diary.

Regards,

Jonathan S

Returning to this thread at last - my apologies for dropping off the radar. Indeed, John, Ethne, and I migrated to Melbourne in 1969, though I eventually moved to Texas in 1998.

As previously mentioned, mother passed away in 1999, and it is my sad duty to report that after a long fight with Parkinson's, father finally succumbed peacefully in his sleep in November of last year.

I do not have a copy of Invicta, but would be happy to obtain one if someone could point me towards a physical or digital copy of same.