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Guest zebedee

8th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders

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Guest zebedee

I'm trying to find out more details about a Seaforth Highlander killed in action in July 1918. I have the information below but being new to this i don't know what my next steps should be. A search on the CGWC failed to glean any information.

From the date he was killed, i have found that the regiment were involved in the advance on Buzancy, 20th-28th July, from this i believe it was here that he was killed, but again nothing comes to light at this location. His name is on a war memorial in the village in Scotland where he lived in prior to the war and this is as much as i have found. I would be greatful for any advice or tips to help with the search.

Cheers

Name:

James Mackenzie

Birth Place:

Dores, Inverness-Shire Scotland

Death Date:

28 Jul 1918

Death Location:

France & Flanders

Enlistment Location:

Fort George, Inverness-Shire

Rank:

L/Corporal

Regiment:

Seaforth Highlanders (Ross-shire Buffs, the Duke of Albany's)

Battalion:

8th Battalion

Number:

S/14919

Type of Casualty:

Killed in action

Theatre of War:

Western European Theatre

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rksimpson

Hi

From CWGC I get these-

http://www.cwgc.org/...asualty=1759209

http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=301100

http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=665297

http://www.cwgc.org/...asualty=3077761

All are J Mackenzies from the Seaforths, but only the top one has the same death date, but different service number?

Here he is, someone lost an "a" !!

http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=274917

Now you have his parents names and address and his DOB, you can search Scotlands People for Birth Certificate and when the 1911 census comes out sometime this year, look that up.

regards

Robert

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rksimpson

Hi

Also you could look at the Regiment's War Diary, but unfortunately it is not online, you have to go to National Archives, unless someone here has a copy?

See - http://www.1914-1918.../wardiaries.htm

Have you checked the Service and Pesion records on Ancestry? You have to look at all the ones that might match to pick it up.

regards

Robert

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Guest zebedee

Hi

From CWGC I get these-

http://www.cwgc.org/...asualty=1759209

http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=301100

http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=665297

http://www.cwgc.org/...asualty=3077761

All are J Mackenzies from the Seaforths, but only the top one has the same death date, but different service number?

Here he is, someone lost an "a" !!

http://www.cwgc.org/...casualty=274917

Now you have his parents names and address and his DOB, you can search Scotlands People for Birth Certificate and when the 1911 census comes out sometime this year, look that up.

regards

Robert

Thank you very much

Hi

Also you could look at the Regiment's War Diary, but unfortunately it is not online, you have to go to National Archives, unless someone here has a copy?

See - http://www.1914-1918.../wardiaries.htm

Have you checked the Service and Pesion records on Ancestry? You have to look at all the ones that might match to pick it up.

regards

Robert

Thanks very much i will give this a go

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Derek Robertson

Is there an accessible diary for the 8th Bn?

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frommetoyou

Hi first post.My Granfather served with the 8th Bn.Seaforth Highlanders (1914 1918).I know he was wounded, is there anyway of finding where or when this happened?

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hazelclark

Hi first post.My Granfather served with the 8th Bn.Seaforth Highlanders (1914 1918).I know he was wounded, is there anyway of finding where or when this happened?

If you can post a bit more about your grandfather, such as his name, date of birth and if possible his regimental number someone may be able to help. you can try for a start to find him on "ancestry" by putting in his name and regiment and where he came from. The least you should be able to come up with by doing that would be his Medal Index Card which will tell you which medals he was entitled to and if maybe he was entitled to a "Silver War Badge" since you say he was wounded. The Medal Roll records for the latter are also on Ancestry.

Hazel Clark

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frommetoyou

If you can post a bit more about your grandfather, such as his name, date of birth and if possible his regimental number someone may be able to help. you can try for a start to find him on "ancestry" by putting in his name and regiment and where he came from. The least you should be able to come up with by doing that would be his Medal Index Card which will tell you which medals he was entitled to and if maybe he was entitled to a "Silver War Badge" since you say he was wounded. The Medal Roll records for the latter are also on Ancestry.

Hazel Clark

Thanks Hazel.My Grandfather was born Nov.5.1889.his regimental number 3441.discharged 2nd.of January 1919.Thank you

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hazelclark

Thanks Hazel.My Grandfather was born Nov.5.1889.his regimental number 3441.discharged 2nd.of January 1919.Thank you

It is pretty hard to find someone without their name!!! I suggest you put the information into 'Ancestry" and see what comes up. I tried with his regiment and service number but couldn't find anyone with that number.

hazel C.

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James

Hazel and Frommetoyou,

I find ancestry searches a nightmare however I did find the following:

David Douglas

Pte Seaforth Highlanders No:3441

Labour Corps No:632120

Theatre first entred:1

Date of entry: 1 Aug 1915.

What this means is that he was probably wounded whilst serving with the seaforth and then transfered to the Labour Corps as being unfit for front line service. Eventually being discharged from them after the war was over.

The 8th Bn was part of 44Brigade 15th Division and if he did indeed serve with this unit he would have joined after their initial deployment to France in July 1915. (1 is France). The 15th took part in the battle of Loos in August 1915 and this man would probably have been there.

This individual was entitled to 15 Star and the British and victory medals.

To be of any help though we really do need you to confirm THE NAME OF YOUR GRANDFATHER, how you know his unit ect etc. The more information the better.

With the name we can confirm if this was indeed your grandfather.

James

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frommetoyou

It is pretty hard to find someone without their name!!! I suggest you put the information into 'Ancestry" and see what comes up. I tried with his regiment and service number but couldn't find anyone with that number.

hazel C.

So sorry Hazel my granfathers name was James Whyte.But on his discharge certificate it is James White.thank you.

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hazelclark

So sorry Hazel my granfathers name was James Whyte.But on his discharge certificate it is James White.thank you.

I looked under both names on "Ancestry" and all i can come up with is his Medal Index Card. He was entitled to the British, the Victory and the 1915 Star, and first went to France on July 9th 1915. I checked the Silver War Badge List since you say he was wounded, but cannot find him listed. Unfortunately, that doesn't help much with finding out about his wounding unless you have a bit more information about his movements, in which case you could check the War Diary for the 8th Bn. You should also read the above post from James who also tried to find your Grandfather.

Hazel C.

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hazelclark

Hazel and Frommetoyou,

I find ancestry searches a nightmare however I did find the following:

David Douglas

Pte Seaforth Highlanders No:3441

Labour Corps No:632120

Theatre first entred:1

Date of entry: 1 Aug 1915.

What this means is that he was probably wounded whilst serving with the seaforth and then transfered to the Labour Corps as being unfit for front line service. Eventually being discharged from them after the war was over.

The 8th Bn was part of 44Brigade 15th Division and if he did indeed serve with this unit he would have joined after their initial deployment to France in July 1915. (1 is France). The 15th took part in the battle of Loos in August 1915 and this man would probably have been there.

This individual was entitled to 15 Star and the British and victory medals.

To be of any help though we really do need you to confirm THE NAME OF YOUR GRANDFATHER, how you know his unit ect etc. The more information the better.

With the name we can confirm if this was indeed your grandfather.

James

Hi James,

You will have seen that the name is different - James White.

On another topic, I hope you saw the mention of Malcolm Campbell's MM in the "Routine Orders" of the 8th Seaforth on July 18th 1917.

Hazel

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frommetoyou

Hazel and James

Thank you both for your effort.Will keep looking.

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James

Hazel,

Sorry I did get your email - thanks - all things 15th div seems to cover the intrest level now - it's getting bigger at a frightning rate.

Frommetoyou - If the date of entry is the 9th this ties in with being an original who went to france with the division when it went overseas after training. Advance parties went from the 7/8th July followed by the infantry who crossed from Folkestone to Boulogne.

I did reply with some detail of the divisions early days in France to a thread by wallflower :

link http://1914-1918.inv...dpost&p=1825496

Link http://1914-1918.inv...topic=186962=

Also:

The 15th Div was a front line unit during this period.

Principle events for the Div are:

July 15 - Move to France.

Late July 15 - Introduction to trench warfare taking over the line in Aug for the first time. (near LOOS)

Sept 15 - Battle of LOOS

Oct 15 - Reserve for IV corps near Lillers before moving back to the line near Quarries sector.

Dec 15 - Reserve Div till Jan 16.

Jan 16 - Mar 16 - Trench warfare near Loos.

April 16 - I corps reserve again near Lillers.

Late April 16 - return to the line (Hohenzollern) till July 16.

July 16 - into reserve position near Bruay.

A lack of SWB can be explained that this was issued to soldiers who were discharged before the end of their period of service. He remained in service till after the war so no SWB. Also he returned to the Seaforths which could indicate a 'slight' wound. Quite often soldiers were sent to diferent units after recovery returning to the same unit could be an indication he did not go far down the evacuation chain.

He would very likely have been in the second wave of 100,000 volunteers from which 15th Div was formed ( a K2 DIV) in Sept 14.

Tipical Ancestry Sea (for Seaforth) is misstransposed as sco (for Scottish)

Intrestingly there is a pension record for another James Whyte in the 8th Seaforth born 1889 No S/1967 but discharged medically unfit after a few days.

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frommetoyou

James

Thanks again for the information.Looking at my grandfathers discharge certificate I noticed this number in red s/1261.Just the number issued maybe?

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James

Are you able to scan and attach the discharge certificate?

Go to more reply options bottom right - this opens up a large replt box and at the bottom is the facility to browse and attach images etc.

If we are ble to see the document either ourselfs or othhers may be able to help more.

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James

Thanks for that I can see it so you 'did it right'

I cannot find any connection betwean S/1261 or S/1251 and your relitave under any spelling of his name. (doesnt mean there isn't one though) I presume it's a filing reference.

Do you know what your grandfathers ocupation was? Starting in December the first miners were demobalised and sent home followed by others whose occupation was essential for the economy the main bulk of the division was demobed by March with the division ceasing to exist on the 27th June 1919. He would being an original which would also have given him some priority.

Without his service record it's impossible to tell what happened to him, where he was wounded on leave etc etc.

The 15th Division was formed with the surplus from the first 100,000 volunteers followed by men from the second between the 12th sept 14 and 18th sept 14. Serving throughout the war he could have been involved in all the major actions the 15th and the 8th were involved in:

Aldershot sept14 followed by training south of england till July 1915.

LOOS Sept 1915,

Somme Aug 16

Arras April 1917

Ypres July 1917

Defence against german offensive Mar 1918

Transfered to French command July 1918

Buzancy Aug 1918

Back to UK Command Aug 1918

Advance to victory Oct - Nov 1918

Hostilities ceased on Nov 11 1918 with division still in persuit of German foreces in the vicinity Peruwelz - Leuze (near Tourpes)

Given that the division suffered some 42,000 casualties during the course of the war including killed wounded and missing, your man was very lucky indeed.

You can find the war diary for the 8th at kew or possibly at the museum fort george inverness. Lastly there may be a forum member who has copied it. Especially given that he did not recieve any galantry medals or a mention in despatches it is extreemly unlikly you will find a mention of his name. You will however get an overview of what the unit was doing on a day to day basis.

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frommetoyou
post-95072-0-36234100-1356017218_thumb.jThanks James.You can see from this where he was employed.

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James

What a find - it confirms not only the unit but his company as well. As he remained a private it is unlikely that he moved from 'B' Company at least until he was wounded. Stewarts and LLoyds seems to have been a reasonably sized company and with new orders on the books would have been desperate for workers - hence the letter and perhaps why he was realeased so quickly.

Edit - Stewarts and Lloyds was one of the largest steel and tube manufacturers in Britain it was apparently disolved in 1997.

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frommetoyou

James my Grandfather served till 2nd of January 1919.

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James

Yes I can see that - My point was that this was relatively early compared to the bulk of the unit. I didnt mean that he was released as a result of the reciept of the letter but that the letter indicates the pressing need of the company for him which may or may not have had any bearing on his release in Jan 1919.

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PaintedWarrior

Hi

I have found out an ancestor served with the Seaforths in WW1.

His service number was S/7984 Pte Charles Ross.

He entered the France theatre of war on 4/8/15

I am trying to find out which battalion he served in. From what I have surmised it was with the 8th Battalion.

Can anyone advise or confirm this please?

Regards

PW

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hazelclark

Hi

I have found out an ancestor served with the Seaforths in WW1.

His service number was S/7984 Pte Charles Ross.

He entered the France theatre of war on 4/8/15

I am trying to find out which battalion he served in. From what I have surmised it was with the 8th Battalion.

Can anyone advise or confirm this please?

Regards

PW

As you say, his MIC only says "Seaforth". There are a lot of men called Charles Ross listed on Ancestry but have not yet nailed one down any service papers in 8th Seaforth Will look some more.

Hazel

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