alanlw Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 Can anyone help me identify this plane. The photo was taken 1917-18. Not sure where, possibly German East Africa. Thanks. attachment=134710:biplane, 4 chaps.jpg (Sorry, have exceeded my disk quota for pictures on the forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 31 January , 2011 Share Posted 31 January , 2011 BE2C recce and general purpose aircraft. Obsolete by 1917 but there was no air opposition in GEA and the aircraft was very reliable, easy to fly and easy to maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 The serial number and the fuselage cockade appear to have been removed, either from the aeroplane itself or from the photo by the censor - but if the latter, why the cockade as well as the serial number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 It's certainly a BE2c, and it looks like the fuselage, at least, has been re-covered with fabric in the field. The conditions in East Africa would have been pretty hard for the fabric of aeroplanes. With no aerial opposition in the area, it may have been decided that it wasn't worth the time and effort required to repaint the serial number and roundel. Other photographs of BE2cs from No 26 Sqn show non-standard displays of serials and roundels, so re-covering was probably common. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 It's certainly a BE2c, and it looks like the fuselage, at least, has been re-covered with fabric in the field. The conditions in East Africa would have been pretty hard for the fabric of aeroplanes. With no aerial opposition in the area, it may have been decided that it wasn't worth the time and effort required to repaint the serial number and roundel. Other photographs of BE2cs from No 26 Sqn show non-standard displays of serials and roundels, so re-covering was probably common. Gareth It may have been recovered but it might have been simply redoped. Many of the BE2Cs that went to Africa were shipped either clear doped or in the lighter colour used in the European Theatre (I won't go into the Pigment colours here) and given the sun in Africa were redoped in a darker more resistant colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlw Posted 1 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2011 Thanks to everyone for their replies. I had wondered whether it was a BE2 but thought it was a little on the short side. I had already put another photo of a BE2 in GEA with conventional colours on another part of the forum - see posts after 29 Jan 2011 on South African's in RFC in East Africa (I have also put up several other pictures, of a crash and some officers). Can you explain 'redope' please. Is that recolouring/redying or similar? Thanks again. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 Can you explain 'redope' please. Is that recolouring/redying or similar? Aircraft were 'painted' in dope which tightened the fabric and, if pigmented, protected the linen from the effects of sunlight. Aircraft in the early part of the war at least would be shipped out to Africa either clear doped (which imparted a nice creamy colour) or in pigmented dope shade PC10 (which was greenish). It was decided at some point that a more reddish brown shade (PC12) gave a better protection against the tropical sun and aircraft might then have been redoped. As the pigments were made by a variety of manufacturers and sometimes mixed locally by station mechanics from ingredients supplied there were many variations from standard (a matter that has caused internecine warfare amongst some serious scale modellers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flakdodger Posted 1 February , 2011 Share Posted 1 February , 2011 (a matter that has caused internecine warfare amongst some serious scale modellers). Yes, I bear the scars, but I am much recovered now. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 2 February , 2011 Share Posted 2 February , 2011 Note also this BE is fitted with a bomb rack so it meant business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlw Posted 3 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2011 Nils, Thanks for your reply. Not being an expert on these things, I find it difficult to see exactly where the bomb rack is. Presumably under the wings - can you point it out specifically? Thx. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 3 February , 2011 Share Posted 3 February , 2011 Nils, Thanks for your reply. Not being an expert on these things, I find it difficult to see exactly where the bomb rack is. Presumably under the wings - can you point it out specifically? Thx. Alan It can just be seen under the fuselage, only the very rear of it. BE2s as a general purpose aircraft might carry all sorts of things, bombs, supplies, mail even flares underneath. Nils, Thanks for your reply. Not being an expert on these things, I find it difficult to see exactly where the bomb rack is. Presumably under the wings - can you point it out specifically? Thx. Alan It can just be seen under the fuselage, only the very rear of it. BE2s as a general purpose aircraft might carry all sorts of things, bombs, supplies, mail even flares underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlw Posted 3 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2011 It can just be seen under the fuselage, only the very rear of it. BE2s as a general purpose aircraft might carry all sorts of things, bombs, supplies, mail even flares underneath. Think this is the same plane but taken more from the front. You can see the bomb rack much better (if I'm looking in the right place). attachment=134841:Biplane, 3 chaps, one in dressing gownQ.jpG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlw Posted 4 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2011 By popular request more plane photos. Here's (I think) an Avro 504A - firstly whole plane then a mechanic attending to the engine. attachment=134852:Biplane A443 being attended to.jpg attachment=134854:Front of plane, mechanic.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 4 February , 2011 Share Posted 4 February , 2011 Alan It is indeed an Avro 504A, one built under contract by S E Saunders Ltd, in East Cowes, Isle of Wight. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlw Posted 7 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2011 How about this plane? I have it down as an RE8. I'm also very curious about the location. Croydon, by any chance? attachment=135045:RFC Franchise_02.jpg attachment=135046:RFC Franchise_16.jpg Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 7 February , 2011 Share Posted 7 February , 2011 Alan You're correct about A3174 being an RE8. It was built under licence by the Austin Motor Company in Birmingham. Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 7 February , 2011 Share Posted 7 February , 2011 The lack of a Scarf ring would suggest a training aircraft. If so the ordinary enlarged fin rather than the very enlarged fin would further suggest post May 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlw Posted 7 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2011 The lack of a Scarf ring would suggest a training aircraft. If so the ordinary enlarged fin rather than the very enlarged fin would further suggest post May 1918 The chap in the photo (Sir Philip Brocklehurst) was promoted to Major in March 1917. In the photo he is still a captain. Another photo shows him in flying gear, presumably about to be or having just been taken up by his brother who only got his aviator's certificate in January 1917. My dating is Feb 1917 plus or minus a week or two. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 7 February , 2011 Share Posted 7 February , 2011 The chap in the photo (Sir Philip Brocklehurst) was promoted to Major in March 1917. In the photo he is still a captain. Another photo shows him in flying gear, presumably about to be or having just been taken up by his brother who only got his aviator's certificate in January 1917. My dating is Feb 1917 plus or minus a week or two. Alan Would fit. The enlarged fin began to be introduced about Feb 1917. Drawings showing how to extend the fin further were issued to training Squadrons in April 1917. They were ordered to revert to the ordinary enlarged fin in May 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 7 February , 2011 Share Posted 7 February , 2011 Alan Your estimate of the date is probably pretty accurate, as A3174 was the fifth RE8 built by Austin in the batch A3169 to A3268, and the first, A3169, was at Farnborough on 14 January 1917. I'd expect the fifth aeroplane to have been delivered shortly afterwards. A very minor point, but the observer's gun ring mentioned in Centurion's post, was called a Scarff ring, after its inventor, Warrant Officer F W Scarff (with two 'f's). Cheers Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlw Posted 7 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2011 Thanks for your feedback. Thoughts on this one welcome too,please guys. Sorry it's not a better photo. Thanks. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 7 February , 2011 Share Posted 7 February , 2011 2 Avro 504s and a BE2C by the hangers. As the BE2 is in plain linen suggests earlyish in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 7 February , 2011 Share Posted 7 February , 2011 There are also three (rather blurred) doped aeroplanes parked in a line in the middle distance. it's obviously a training aerodrome, but apart from that, there's little to determine. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanlw Posted 7 February , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2011 An upset BE2 attachment=135079:RFC Franchise_19.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 8 February , 2011 Share Posted 8 February , 2011 This one is a BE2e. Note the different wings compared to the BE2c in the earlier photos - BE2e wings were more similar to the later RE8. I wouldn't add this if I wasn't also making a sensible comment, but in your post #12, is the chap on the right wearing his dressing gown? Or is it an Arab robe without the headgear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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