Pte Patrick Ryan, King's Liverpool Regt

[goodison77]

My grandfather was in the Liverpool Kings and a POW. The only information I have is his no 14933 and that he said he was in a camp near the Holland- Germany border and he remembered having to stand to attention as the train carrying Kaiser Wilhelm or hiis belongings passed them on the way to Holland. Does anybody have any idea what the camp was called and where I can find more information.

Doug R

[alanmackie]

Hello

Here is a link to a booklet wiith a map and brief description of the main POW camps. You will be able to download a copy.

http://www.archive.org/details/ofmainprisoncmap00poperich

Dental

[goodison77]

Thanks Dental

Hello

Here is a link to a booklet wiith a map and brief description of the main POW camps. You will be able to download a copy.

http://www.archive.o...ncmap00poperich

Dental

Thanks Dental

[archangel9]

Doug,

This site -

http://www.gutenberg-e.org/steuer/archive/AppendixA/germany/index.html

might also prove useful. If you click on the map of "Imperial Germany" you will see all the PoW camps and their locations.

John

[KevinBattle]

Hmmm, Why didn't Tom Hanks try to rescue him???

Seriously, have you any idea when he might have been captured at any time in 4 and a quarter years?

Do you know his Battalion, or when he signed up, was wounded or whatever?

Just to narrow it down, you understand!!

Have you looked for any Service Records in any Family History website?

Have you tried looking in the local library newspaper archives where he was living, in case some report of his wounding or capture was printed?

Most long term PoW camps were well inside Germany, so on the border might just have been temporary until transferred to more remote locations.

Of course, there is a potential significant fact about Kaiser Wilhelm and a train near the German Dutch border and that is due to the terms of the Armistice, he was forced to abdicate and was exiled into Holland.... perhaps if he had been captured close to the end of fighting, he could have still been in the vicinity when Kaiser Bill passed by on his way to exile.....

[goodison77]

Hmmm, Why didn't Tom Hanks try to rescue him???

Seriously, have you any idea when he might have been captured at any time in 4 and a quarter years?

Do you know his Battalion, or when he signed up, was wounded or whatever?

Just to narrow it down, you understand!!

Have you looked for any Service Records in any Family History website?

Have you tried looking in the local library newspaper archives where he was living, in case some report of his wounding or capture was printed?

Most long term PoW camps were well inside Germany, so on the border might just have been temporary until transferred to more remote locations.

Of course, there is a potential significant fact about Kaiser Wilhelm and a train near the German Dutch border and that is due to the terms of the Armistice, he was forced to abdicate and was exiled into Holland.... perhaps if he had been captured close to the end of fighting, he could have still been in the vicinity when Kaiser Bill passed by on his way to exile.....

[goodison77]

Thanks guys

Apologies if my information is not detailed enough... I am new to the site, which I think is excellent by the way.

The information I have is that my grandad was in the 5th Batt (Kings Liverpool) but apparently changed on more than one ocassion during the war.

He was captured in 1918 I am told after being injured and treated by a Russain Soldier, the mention of the Kaiser was apparently as he left into exile and he passed the camp in which my grandad was detained on the Holland/German border.

I was just after names of camps which fit this desciption to continue my research.

Other info: I have his Discharge Papers and Medal Card but no other evidence or knowledge.

Thanks

[KevinBattle]

Have you looked for any Service Records in any Family History website?

Have you tried looking in the local library newspaper archives where he was living, in case some report of his wounding or capture was printed?

Most long term PoW camps were well inside Germany, so on the border might just have been temporary until transferred to more remote locations.

Of course, there is a potential significant fact about Kaiser Wilhelm and a train near the German Dutch border and that is due to the terms of the Armistice, he was forced to abdicate and was exiled into Holland.... perhaps if he had been captured close to the end of fighting, he could have still been in the vicinity when Kaiser Bill passed by on his way to exile.....

Right, thanks for confirming my supposition.

Kaiser Wilhelm II went into exile on 29th November 1918 by train to Holland. As the Armistice came into effect on 11th November all captured soldiers were in the process of repatriation.

If your grand father had been captured, but was still close to the front lines near Holland, he must have been captured only days before the War ended, otherwise he would have been further behind the lines.....

As regards standing to attention, it may have happened, as a courtesy to a ruling head, BUT as Head of a Country that we had been fighting to a standstill for over 4 years, I find a little surprising, unless for some reason he was still in a camp run by the Germans who had not yet been "liberated"......

These men had similar Service Numbers to your grand father

BEVAN G 14932 18TH BN 09/04/1917 THE KING'S (LIVERPOOL REGIMENT)

CRIBB JH 14937 13TH BN 14/07/1916 THE KING'S (LIVERPOOL REGIMENT)

STRICKLEY WJ 14934 4TH BN 28/04/1915 THE KING'S (LIVERPOOL REGIMENT)

No clues as to a specific Battalion, nor were they killed in 1918, so no help narrowing it down there.

Your best bet will still be with the archives of a local paper where he was living before the War. Try contacting a local library with a Family History section and see if they can help.

[goodison77]

Thanks very much for your help...I feel much more confident of the direction I should follow

Doug R

[goodison77]

Thanks to the maps and some other info I think the camp may be called Preussisch as my grandad relayed a story of having to cross a railtrack which ran through the camp when the german soldiers informed them if they wanted food they would have to make their own way over the track. My grandad was wounded we believe at Paschendale before ending up at the camp, he also mentioned POWs having to work in mines not far from the camp.

Thanks again

[Doug Johnson]

I should have read this one first. I would suggest he was at Friedrichsfeld. There were many coal mines such as Westerholt in which Friedrichsfeld prisoners were employed. The rail line was possibly not at Friedrichsfeld itself but at a work camp, though why he would still be at the work camp after the armistice is a bit odd, though it did happen in a few cases. Also, to still be there (at Friedrichsfeld) on the 29th November would be odd unless he was in transit which does not seem to be the case(the close camps were evacuated very quickly), as would having to stand to attention for the Kaiser as most British prisoners would have refused at that time if ordered by German guards. The idea of a camp straddling a rail line does not sound right either but at a work location would be OK. To have known the passing train contained the Kaiser suggests he was at a station, possibly he was also on his way to Holland at the time.

Being in a camp close to the western front does not indicate a late date of capture. Some 1914 prisoners in Friedrichsfeld could have still been there even in 1918, though probably in a work camp. A late date of capture however applies to some 2 out of 3 British PoWs

My theory is that he was at Friedrichsfeld, was stationed at a work camp attached to Friedrichsfeld (where he crossed the railway lines) and was on his way home when the Kaiser passed.

Doug

[goodison77]

Thanks for your help Doug