RIPJack1945 Posted 14 January , 2011 Share Posted 14 January , 2011 Despite the MGK 21 J.R. on the side of the wagon, the reverse indicates these British prisoners are being 'accompanied' by men of the 56 Infanterie Division, somewhere near Givenchy, July / August 1916. The 21 J.R. doesn't appear to have formed part of the 56th J.D.s order of battle. Can anyone identify the "S" on the sleeve of the surly NCO on the back of the wagon? Cheers, Brett MGK 21 J.R. enlarged by drakegoodman, on Flickr MGK 21 J.R. by drakegoodman, on Flickr MGK 21 J.R. reverse by drakegoodman, on Flickr P.S. any admins reading this, I've sent a small request via the usual channels, which seems to be languishing unread in the in-tray. Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 14 January , 2011 Share Posted 14 January , 2011 Brett I can't give you a definitive answer as I've never seen the S badge documented but I believe that it is a sharpshooter's or sniper's badge adopted at regimental level. The attached picture, a cut down postcard was marked across the top by the photographer 'Sharf-Shutzen der 8.Komp. 176...' The exposure makes it a bit difficult to read when scanned. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 15 January , 2011 Share Posted 15 January , 2011 Actually, Brett's photo shows an unofficial shock-troop or assault-squad badge, standing for any one of the following: Stosstrupp, Sturmtrupp, Sturmtruppe, or Sturmabteilung. Individual infantry companies formed shock troops of one to three infantry squads (nine to 27 men) augmented if necessary by one pioneer squad. The shock troops were armed with hand grenades, one machine gun, one light trench mortar, and one to two flamethrowers. Since the "S" badge was unofficial, it had no specific pattern. In Mike's photo the photographer could have been mistaken, but it's also possible that there was an unofficial sniper's badge in the shape of an "S." Two of the men in Mike's photo wear Swedish cuffs, which could indicate that they're pioneers who are part of the company shock troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPJack1945 Posted 15 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2011 Gentlemen, thank-you muchly for the responses This one sat in my too hard basket for a while, I should have put it here sooner. Warm regards, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Posted 23 January , 2011 Share Posted 23 January , 2011 I agree stormtrooper and unofficial One of the major developments of the First World War was the stormtrooper. These were assault troops trained in squads as trench fighters and formed by individual regiments from 1915 with the Sturm-Bataillone being developed in late 1915 early 1916. Each of these Sturm-Bataillone consisted of 2-4 companies with a machine gun, flame-thrower and mortar or Minenwerfer companies. This raised the old and still on going argument against elite formations , that is that by concentrating the best men in these companies the quality of the normal infantry decreased, this led to most of these storm battalions being broken up. It is important not to confuse these troops with the shock divisions used in 1917-18 who were chosen to make counter attacks rather than defend like ordinary divisions. German Snipper or marksman had no insignia but a rope. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsturm Posted 27 January , 2011 Share Posted 27 January , 2011 I recall seeing a Saxon assault trooper with "S" insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 27 January , 2011 Share Posted 27 January , 2011 I recall seeing a Saxon assault trooper with "S" insignia. The men of the assault company of the Saxon 23rd Reserve Infantry Division wore a green brassard on the left arm with white edging and a white "S." It was featured on the cover of the Osprey title The German Army 1914-18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsturm Posted 28 January , 2011 Share Posted 28 January , 2011 Exactly what I ment. The brassard looks quite distinguishable, not like the "S" in the original photo... Also, I'm not sure if this particular assault unit existed in summer 1916. I need to go through my books later today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 28 January , 2011 Share Posted 28 January , 2011 My understanding was that the "S" designated a Saxony regiment. Such politico-geograhic distinctions were quite important in Germany. I stand to be corrected. Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 28 January , 2011 Share Posted 28 January , 2011 My understanding was that the "S" designated a Saxony regiment. Such politico-geograhic distinctions were quite important in Germany. I stand to be corrected. Antony The "S" brassard was worn only by the assault company of the 23rd Reserve Infantry Division. No other Saxon soldiers wore an "S" on the sleeve. Also, the "S" was worn by Prussian and Bavarian shock troops as well as Saxon. Shock troops were encouraged to wear special insignia in order to create an esprit de corps. So far I've identified an "H" (for Handgranaten) on the shoulder strap; an "M" (possibly for Maschinengewehr or Minenwerfer) on the shoulder strap; sleeve badges in the shape of grenades; sleeve badges in the shape of an "S"; a skull-and-crossbones sleeve badge; colored chevrons; colored rectangles; and colored brassards worn on the left or both arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 29 January , 2011 Share Posted 29 January , 2011 Thank you, Tom. Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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