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Remembered Today:

unknown cap badge - what is it


delta

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Grateful for help in identifying the capbadge being worn by these soldiers

the only clue might be No 1 OTC at Newton Ferrers

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RE would be my guess too.

Looking at the picture - I would suggest it might well predate the Great War by some years (perhaps a decade?)

The "Bush Hat" was a style brought back from the Boer War and sometimes retained by units that had deployed there and, looking at the chap (boy?) seated on the right (as we look), he appears to have a bandoleer on under his greatcoat, of the style that predates the more commonly seen 1903 bandoleer that held rounds in chargers and rather holds single rounds in fabric loops (or perhaps I am seeing things?)

Chris

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Possibly the Royal Hampshires?

hampshire_regiment_badge2.JPG

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Grateful for help in identifying the capbadge being worn by these soldiers

the only clue might be No 1 OTC at Newton Ferrers

I believe they are Royal Engineers. The SD cap badge shape alone is in accordance with that supposition, but the clincher is the man front left with the Slouch Hat whose side is pinned up by an RE Grenade with scroll 'Ubique' under.

post-599-036838000 1294961466.jpg

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Grateful for help in identifying the capbadge being worn by these soldiers

the only clue might be No 1 OTC at Newton Ferrers

Doesn't look quite right for Royal Engineers and the two wearing slouch hats have thrown me a little. I wonder if they are Australians, New Zealanders or some other colonial unit?

I'm sure that someone will be along soon with a better answer.

Robert

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I believe they are Royal Engineers. The SD cap badge shape alone is in accordance with that supposition, but the clincher is the man front left with the Slouch Hat whose side is pinned up by an RE Grenade with scroll 'Ubique' under.

Colonial Engineers?

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Slouch hats were often worn in the field by British Soldiers in the period immediately leading up to WW1. Here is the badge being used to pin up the side of the hat.

post-599-030057000 1294961779.jpg

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Thanks for the input - it creates a bit of a "question" as the soldier in the centre front was known to have served in the MMGS, then the Tank corps before being commissioned in 7th Londons

He was educated at Tonbridge School - if they had a OTC, what badge would he have worn?

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Thanks for the input - it creates a bit of a "question" as the soldier in the centre front was known to have served in the MMGS, then the Tank corps before being commissioned in 7th Londons

He was educated at Tonbridge School - if they had a OTC, what badge would he have worn?

Tonbridge School OTC cap badge.

David.

post-21239-008494500 1295026325.jpg

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That looks like a possible to me, David

What do you think?

FWIW in my opinion absolutely not!

Wrong shape, no scroll underneath on the men in the photo.

just my 2p

Chris

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That looks like a possible to me, David

What do you think?

It's the wrong shape, the Royal Engineers badge looks closer to me.

David.

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I think it could very well be the1st City of London Yeomanry (Roughriders). The slouch hat was worn by the Yeomanry on occasion, especially in the Boer War. Also the Yeomanry tended to wear bandolier ammunition pouches. Also I think the man bottom left is holding a riding crop which would be consistent with mounted troops and the Yeomanry. The Roughriders cap bade is a fair bit larger than the RE cap badge, but has a very similar outline. It is definitely not RE.

MG

post-55873-059524900 1295033486.jpg

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They are not Australians. I would date this to a few years either side of 1906. They could be VB troops. I doubt they are cadets with those greatcoats and tents. It looks like an annual camp photo. The slouch hat does seem to have a grenade on it so RE is a good choice.

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Does the bandolier this lad is wearing help with a date?

30tpffb.jpg

Could be RE lads training with Australians? :unsure:

Mike

See post No3!

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The center of the badges look too voided for the 1st London Yeomanry. I say definitely RE as well. Bandoleers and riding crops are perfectly normal for mounted RE drivers, although one guy looks like he's holding a swagger stick ... maybe the other guy is as well, rather than a riding crop.

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Thanks for the input - it creates a bit of a "question" as the soldier in the centre front was known to have served in the MMGS, then the Tank corps before being commissioned in 7th Londons

He was educated at Tonbridge School - if they had a OTC, what badge would he have worn?

It seems that R.E. is now favourite for the unit, so do we have any further information on the man? He was educated at Tonbridge but the badge is not the correct one for the school. Did he go to Oxford University? If so the R.E. section of the O.U.O.T.C. wore the R.E. pattern badge with the scroll which normally says 'Royal Engineers' altered to 'Oxford University O.T.C.' This may be the answer as it fits both the O.T.C. and R.E. theories.

Do we have the soldiers full name?

Any comments?

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The center of the badges look too voided for the 1st London Yeomanry. I say definitely RE as well. Bandoleers and riding crops are perfectly normal for mounted RE drivers, although one guy looks like he's holding a swagger stick ... maybe the other guy is as well, rather than a riding crop.

I rather think that 'swagger sticks' points to O.T.C. rather than regular soldiers?

Looking closely, the top left, centre, top right and bottom left men, are all holding swagger sticks, I think?

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I am just wondering if this is a pre-OTC (pre 1908) Volunteer cadet corps photo. I know Rugby School cadets (or at least their shooting team) were still wearing slouch hats in 1909 .. and they adopted their own cap badge in 1908 - prior to that i think wore badges linked to local Volunteer units - they seem to have had a rather eclectic mix of uniform and equipment up to 1911 at least. That this was a prewar cadet camp seems likely to me - and could explain a 17 year old serjeant, by the look of him. What i dont know if any cadets were affiliated to RE and so badged .. I will change that. yes I do. 1903 Army List has, under 1st Middlesex Royal Engineers (Volunteers) the Tonbridge School Cadet Corps listed.. commanded by Captain E C Goldberg. Various other schools were so affiliated to RE Volunteers (Bedford Grammer, Cheltenham College, Clifton College.. amongst others).

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I am just wondering if this is a pre-OTC (pre 1908) Volunteer cadet corps photo. I know Rugby School cadets (or at least their shooting team) were still wearing slouch hats in 1909 .. and they adopted their own cap badge in 1908 - prior to that i think wore badges linked to local Volunteer units - they seem to have had a rather eclectic mix of uniform and equipment up to 1911 at least. That this was a prewar cadet camp seems likely to me - and could explain a 17 year old serjeant, by the look of him. What i dont know if any cadets were affiliated to RE and so badged .. I will change that. yes I do. 1903 Army List has, under 1st Middlesex Royal Engineers (Volunteers) the Tonbridge School Cadet Corps listed.. commanded by Captain E C Goldberg. Various other schools were so affiliated to RE Volunteers (Bedford Grammer, Cheltenham College, Clifton College.. amongst others).

This all sounds quite feasible. I wonder if Tonbridge School archives have any early O.T.C./Cadet Corps group photos which may confirm this?

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What wonderful sleuthing; thank you all

Old Owl asked for the "subjects" name - it was Ronald Roderick Garlick.

Born 1 May 1892 in Capetown, he was the youngest son of John Garlick and Helen (Ellen?) Miller. John was the founder of the Garlicks department store and was a noted philanthropist. Although christened Ronald, he was known by the family as Roy and like his seven siblings, was educated in England; Roy at Tonbridge School - and this photo could have been taken at this time

Before the war, Roy worked for the family firm. He returned to England on 12 Nov 1915 but, according to family records, did not immediately join up as the only units recruiting were the Infantry. He managed to joined the Motor Machine Gun Service and soon met his first wife Louise. Like most of the MMGS, he was transferred to the Heavy Section of the MGC. Although Roy originally served with A company, he deployed with the C Company advance party, to France on 16 Aug 16 and moved to the Somme arriving around 12 September.

At the battle of Flers-Courcelette, when tanks were used for the first time on 15th September 1916, he was second in command of the tank "Creme de Menthe". This tank was successful in reaching its objective at the Courcelette sugar refinery and for assisting the Candaian infanry to knock out machine gun posotions and breach the walls. As well as at Courcelette, he was almost certainly was in action with Creme de Menthe at Thiepval on 26th September. He stayed with the Heavy Section and then the Tank Corps.

He was selected from training at No 1 OTC at Newton Ferrers, before being commissioned on 27 September 1917 in 7th Bn London Regt, He did not enjoy infantry life and was seconded to the Tank Corps and trained as a tank officer at Wareham, He eventually reached the rank of Captain and was awarded the Croix de Guerre on 3rd Jun 1919 for service with 11th Bn. On 12 February 1921, he married Grace Greaves and had a daughter - the couple were later divorced.

He remained serving until 1 Sep 21. Returning to Capetown, he worked for the family firm dealing with the construction and maintenance side of the firm. He also ran the company car hire business. He married Gladys Laure on 21 April 1927. They had no children and, sadly she died of malaria on 1 July 1936. He lastly married Flora Burmeister, known as Loli, who was 18 years his junior. They had two children, a son Ronald, who like his father known as Rory and Gillian who has provided much of the information about his family life.

During the second world war, he was commissioned into the South African defence forces serving at Pretoria and also at the dynamite factory at Somerset West to the south of Cape Town. Roy, who was a keen fisherman and a carpenter, died, aged 67 on 24 Feb 1960 at Capetown.

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