10th Battery, Royal Field Artillery

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

Researching

Acting Bombardier 90734 John ABLEY

10th Battery, Royal Field Artillery

Kia in Turkey on Friday 22 October 1915

Buried in Twelve Tree Copse in Grave XI.B.12

Local newspapers printed 2 versions relating to his death, namely shot by a sniper at his gun post and a shell burst

while leaving the position.

Has anyone got the War Diary, please, which may sort the matter out.

Many thanks

Graeme

[ss002d6252]

The war diaries vary but tend not to give much detail for deaths of anyone other than officers.

[sotonmate]

Graeme

I make it,from reading the Long Long Trail page on RFA units,that 10 Battery was a part of 147 Brigade RFA,with 29 Division at Gallipoli. The War Diary is under WO95/4308,the several Batteries which made up the Brigade will all be featured in this Diary. It is not yet digital so you will have to arrange to get a copy of the pages around ABLEY's death. As stated here the Diary may indeed not show his name,but should show number of casualties and possibly causes.

Sotonmate

[GraemeClarke]

H both

Many thanks for the replies and the comments.

I was rather hoping someone may have had the WD and posted just in case.

Cheers,

Graeme

[GraemeClarke]

Morning

Just bumping this up in case anyone has the War Diary,

Many thanks,

Graeme

[rflory]

I don't have the war diary but 29th Divisional Artillery War Record and Honours Book 1915-1918 indicates that he died of wounds (rather than being killed in action) on 22 Oct 1915. 10th Battery was a part of 147th Brigade, RFA. Unfortunately, all the narrative in the book indicates for October 1915 is that "the month was generally an uneventful one."

[GraemeClarke]

Morning Dick,

Thats interesting (DoW) which ties up with a letter to his parents

“It is with deepest sorrow I write to inform you of the death of your son. I was with him at the time, we were working together strengthening the position of our 12-pounder gun, when a sniper got on to us from the flank. John was hit in the body and everything possible was done for him but he died in hospital about an hour afterwards.”

Gunner 90736 John Broadhurst (also from Walsall) was injured at the same time and died the following day,.

many thanks for looking and replying,

Regards,

Graeme

[michaeldr]

Thats interesting (DoW) which ties up with a letter to his parents

“It is with deepest sorrow I write to inform you of the death of your son. I was with him at the time, we were working together strengthening the position of our 12-pounder gun, when a sniper got on to us from the flank. John was hit in the body and everything possible was done for him but he died in hospital about an hour afterwards.”

Graeme,

Farndale in his 'The Forgotten Fronts & the Home Base 1914-1918' has the following for five days earlier -

“17^th October 1915; the War Diary of the 147^th Brigade RFA states. 'The three batteries had been in Section B of left group since the landing under command Major (temporary Lieutenant Colonel) F A Wynter. 147 Brigade HQ was on Hill 138, 10^th Battery (Captain J C Batten) on the lip of the left bank of the Saghir Dere (the Gully). The horses were picketted on terraces cut into the face of the bank, a good deal below the gun position....

Lieutenant Colonel D E Forman assumed command of the Brigade on 17^th October on promotion from 13^th Battery RFA.”

On the following page Fardale has a table showing that there were six 12-pdr guns (out of 124 British guns) at Helles at about (Nov.) this time.

regards

Michael

[GraemeClarke]

Hi Michael

Cheers, many thanks for that, really appreciate the extra info,

Regards,

Graeme

[michaeldr]

Gaeme,

another snippet, this time from the book mentioned earlier by Dick

The 12-pdr guns seem to have been taken over from the Navy, and on June 30^th, 1915, there is a note that the one operated by 10^th Battery was christened 'Harry Tate'

Your quote from the letter mentions moving to a new position - these Naval 12-pdrs must have been a little lighter and perhaps easier (?) to man-handle than the 18-pdrs; there is a note that one of them was taken forward to within 200 yds of the enemy at one point, firing 29 shells of HE at a Turkish sap, with the gun laid by looking through the bore.

Regards

Michael

[djanej]

Graeme,

I read the thread about John ABLEY with great interest. I have been researched members of the ABLEY family (who are related to my father) in the Black Country. I identified John ABLEY as being very probably identical with a distant cousin when I first discovered his War Record. My identification was based in part on the fact that he came from, and joined up in, Walsall, and was roughly the right age. Unfortunately, the CWGC entry does not give an age, nor does it refer to any next-of-kin, so I have been unable to confirm absolutely his identification.

I identified John as the oldest son of John and Ann (nee BEVAN), born in 1893 in Portobello, Willenhall. He was a stamper in the lock trade, living in Walsall with his parents and siblings in 1911.

I would be very grateful, Graeme, if you could confirm whether or not my identification of John is correct.

I knew of John’s death in Gallipoli (one of two family members killed there) and his burial at Twelve Trees Copse. However, I was amazed to see the actual details of his death, and found the letter to his parents very moving.

If my identification is correct, and it is John and Ann’s son who died in Gallipoli, I would be most grateful if you could also answer another question. I have been looking to try and find John’s name on a War Memorial, either in his home town of Walsall or on a Regimental Memorial. Please Graeme, do you know if his name is actually listed anywhere?

Best wishes

Jane J

[Guest David_G]

Read the thread with real interest as just come back from visiting the grave of my Great Uncle (Gunner H Jenns) who died on the 17th June 1917, with the 10th Battery of the 147th Brigade Royal Field Artillery - same Battery that was previously part of the 29th Division.

There was no record at the Cemetery in Noeux-Les-Mines of any action on the 17/6/17 by the 10th Battery/147th Brigade - does anyone know where I could find that information?

Thanks

David

[Guest n8state]

Hi all, this is my first time posting in the forum.

 

Through my own research on a 147th Bde RFA ancestor I came across this particular thread. I've recently been going through war diaries, as he served in Gallipoli, and one entry in the diary caught my eye as I had recently read this thread.

 

Dated 22/10/1915 It reads:

 

"10th Battery Operation Report - at a call from the [unknown], fired on J13A to stop the Turks bombing - the bombing eased. Casualty Report for 10th Battery 2Lt G JENNINGS joined for duty. Two men seriously wounded while repairing the 12 Pdn emplacement, one of them died shortly afterwards No90734 Bdr ABLEY. J. It has been blowing a gale from the North today: bitterly cold."

 

I know this thread has been inactive for sometime but I thought it definitely worth chipping in for records sake. 

 

Best regards,

 

Nathan

 

[GraemeClarke]

Morning Nathan,

 

Many thanks for the interest in this thread, appreciated,

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

[TrenchCoat]

I wonder if any of you can help me?

I'm trying to trace Joseph Wilson who was with 147th Brigade and died 21st October 1918. I'm struggling to find references to his unit at that date. Any pointeres willbe gratefully received.

[davidmbrown]

TrenchCoat

I have just seen the enquiry from TrenchCoat. Apologies if this response is now not needed. You are asking about the whereabouts of 147 Brigade RFA in October 1918 I believe. A relevant war diary is Wo95/203 which I have and can also be downloaded from the National Archives. I have been looking at this because my Grandfather was with 10th Battery 147 Brigade RFA at that time and his best pal was killed on 16 October 1918. At that time they were NE of Cambrai and my grandfather's pal was at a forward OP between Haspres and Saulzoir in Vordon Wood when a shell hit the OP and killed him and his Lieutenant.

The diary for 21 October 1918 states "Orders were received at 12 noon, that the Brigade would move to 51 Division on the right & so wagon lines were moved to DOUCHY and guns taken up into action SW of THIANT with 100rds per gun."

The diary, unusually, does give the names of several non officer casualties and although no casualties are mentioned for 21 October 1918 I have found the following in the diary for 14 October 1918.

"No further advance was made, four guns of each battery were withdrawn to rear positions & kept silent. D/147 Bde had the following casualties which were caused by one shell falling on battery position. - 715078 Sgt Wilson J. 3967 Sgt Walker Q. 944013 A/Sgt Bickers J. 71776 Cpl Sig Watling A. 3105 Gnr Huxter H all wounded. 40 mules 35 LDH 3 HDH arrived at 20.00 hrs as remounts."

Hope that may be useful.

David

[Guest Skippy France]

On 13/02/2013 at 19:40, djanej said:

Graeme,

I read the thread about John ABLEY with great interest. I have been researched members of the ABLEY family (who are related to my father) in the Black Country. I identified John ABLEY as being very probably identical with a distant cousin when I first discovered his War Record. My identification was based in part on the fact that he came from, and joined up in, Walsall, and was roughly the right age. Unfortunately, the CWGC entry does not give an age, nor does it refer to any next-of-kin, so I have been unable to confirm absolutely his identification.

I identified John as the oldest son of John and Ann (nee BEVAN), born in 1893 in Portobello, Willenhall. He was a stamper in the lock trade, living in Walsall with his parents and siblings in 1911.

I would be very grateful, Graeme, if you could confirm whether or not my identification of John is correct.

I knew of John’s death in Gallipoli (one of two family members killed there) and his burial at Twelve Trees Copse. However, I was amazed to see the actual details of his death, and found the letter to his parents very moving.

If my identification is correct, and it is John and Ann’s son who died in Gallipoli, I would be most grateful if you could also answer another question. I have been looking to try and find John’s name on a War Memorial, either in his home town of Walsall or on a Regimental Memorial. Please Graeme, do you know if his name is actually listed anywhere?

Best wishes

Jane J

Hello Jane,

I've just discovered this site and the thread regarding John Abley.

I too, am a family member. John was my maternal Grandmother's brother. So, that means we must be distantly related.

I don't know wether you got your answer regarding John's name on a memorial, or not. I was told this very evening that he is comemorated on the remembrance plaque at Walsall Town Hall, however, his name was misspelt as 'Abbey'. Isn't that sad?

My maternal Grandfather, Walter Hadley, who would have become John's brother in law, also served, and survived The Great War. He was in the South Lancashire Regt. (See photo)

If and when you get this response to your request, please, let me know. My cousin is more of a researcher than I, and might have lots more information should you require it.

Best wishes.

[11kilo]

That is a splendid photo, I am sure the people interested in him will be delighted.

 

David:  are you able to look the war diary for 31 October 1918 and a couple of days before?  I am researching Lieutenant  Aubrey George Cockaday who DOW on 31 October 1918 and would be interested in knowing more about the circumstances of his death.

 

Cheers

Andy

[11kilo]

Lieutenant Cockaday was entitled to the 1914 (with bar) Star and pair, he went to France as a Trumpeter aged 16.  He was MID for 1914, commissioned when he was old enough and survived until ten days before the end of the war, what a tragic shame. 

[djanej]

Hello Skippy France! We talked last year, but I thought I should reply properly to your posting of February 2017, for completeness. And yes, it is a great picture.

 

I do have a reply on the War Memorial issue. I had the reference to him as ABBEY on the Walsall Roll of Honour, which as you say, is so sad, after his sacrifice. How could that happen?

 

However, I believe that he also appears, properly, as ABLEY, on the memorial panel in St. Andrew’s Parish Church, Birchills, Walsall. 

 

There is more about John in a posting that I began myself (A/Bdr JohnABLEY , 10th Battery, CXLVII Brigade, Royal Field Artillery), also on this Forum. The material provided by kind members of the Forum includes a photo of John.

 

Regards,

 

Jane

Edited 2 April , 2018 by djanej
To add more info.

[BullerTurner]

Is this 10 Bty RFA, the same as 10 (Assaye) Bty RA?

[davidmbrown]

From the diary. “31 October 1918 - 2nd Lieutenant A G Cockaday 10th Battery was wounded in the stomach and died of wounds on Nov 1st at No21 CCS“

[Ron Clifton]

On 04/04/2018 at 15:28, BullerTurner said:

Is this 10 Bty RFA, the same as 10 (Assaye) Bty RA?

No.The RA renumbered all its batteries in 1947 in what was hoped to be a reasonably accurate order of raising.

 

What is now 10th (Assaye) Batteryy was the 3rd Company, Bombay Artillery when it fought at the Battle of Assaye in 1803, whereas the 10th Battery RFA of 1914-18 was not raised until 1862. After various renumberings, the Assaye company became 15th Battery Field Artillery in 1889.

 

Tracing the history of the various batteries and companies of artillery through the 19th century is a headache! Fortunately Rev J B M Frederick has already done most of the work in his Lineage Book of British Armed Forces, Volume 1, from which most of this post is taken.

 

Ron

[BullerTurner]

I am obliged.