justingrimwood Posted 3 January , 2011 Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi all, Medal card for Pte Victor Bagnley lists him as with the 2/2nd London R. 67068 and K.R. Rif. C. 57845. He didn't qualify for a Star and the Victory & British medals are I believe inscribed with the London Reg details as the these are asterisked on the card. I'm trying to trace his war history but am struggling to understand when & where he would have been transferred between regiments as well as when he would have first volunteered or been called up. No service record seems to exist whcih I can find. I also believe his name on the MIC is mis-spelt and should be Baguley which makes him my great grandfather. Thanks in advance if anyone can help me with this 'brick wall'. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River97 Posted 4 January , 2011 Share Posted 4 January , 2011 Justin, Unfortunately it seems as though his Service Record did not survive the second war. This can only lead to speculation as to how and why he was transferred between regiments. A common reason was a soldier recovering from wounds or illness and being required to fill a gap in another regiment. Not much, I know, but that is the joy f researching these fellow's. Cheers Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 4 January , 2011 Share Posted 4 January , 2011 With Baguley connections in our family, I thought that it was a mis spelling. However, Ancestry lists quite a few Bagnleys in 1891 scattered around the country, so I have to ask why you feel Victor is a Baguley? The MIC is quite clearly spelt with an "N", and no notation that it was incorrect, or the medals returned for correction, therefore I have to feel that BagNley is right for this chap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River97 Posted 4 January , 2011 Share Posted 4 January , 2011 Kevin, I tend to agree. I have seen those that you mention where medals have been returned due to misspelling and there are also MIC's which refer to another containing the correct spelling. It seems as though those with the wrong spelling were kept in sequence for some reason. And there were a few Bagnley's listed with MIC's. Cheers Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justingrimwood Posted 4 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2011 Thanks for replies thus far. I understand why you would question my assumption that his name is mis-spelt Bagnley instead of Baguley but I've found this to be a common transcription error, usually because the preceeding 'g' has a tail joining to the 'u' and the handwriting is easily mistaken. I've checked many of the Ancestry listings for Bagnleys including the censuses and I'm yet to find any where the original record actually contains the 'n', in my opinion. Having just checked the other 4 Bagnleys with an MIC on Ancestry below, the only potential corresponding service record under either spelling is one for an Eric Ruscal (Ruscoe) Baguley and although I can't match up the service number his record shows he was transferred to the RFA in 1917. Arthur Bagnley Cheshire Regiment 49006 Eric R Bagnley Royal Field Artillery 230731 Herbert Bagnley 20th Dur LI 82403 Victor Bagnley 22nd London Regiment, Kings Royal Rifle Corps 67068, 57845 William E Bagnley Royal Army Medical Corps 95617 There is also no birth, marriage or death record for a Victor Bagnley. I can't get to Kew easily so have not been able to check what is documented in the rolls. Cheers Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 4 January , 2011 Share Posted 4 January , 2011 Justin, I'm not arguing with you, just trying to establish (and if I can, help,) as you think Victor Baguley is your great grandfather... Presumably that means you have traced back to your grandfather, so what makes you think that Victor is your ggfather? Without trying to incur the wrath of the Mods, there seems to be only one potential Victor BagUley that might fit with a transcription error... Victor John William Baguley, born 28th August 1891, son of George Edwin James and Frances Amelia Baguley (maiden name Clarke). George was employed as a planer (plater?) in iron foundry and was born in Shelton, Staffs; Frances born in Ipswich, Suffolk. Victor was born in Woolwich. 1901 Census shows him in 3, Ernest Street, Ipswich, Suffolk with parents and sisters Elizabeth and Mabel, brother Arthur. 6th November 1920 Marriage to Kathleen Elizabeth Mabel Halliday, in Ipswich (and perhaps 2nd Qtr 1942 marriage to Louie Gallagher in Ashby de la Zouch, Leics) and death 24 Jan 1981 in Ipswich. (ah, seen your Family Tree, so we are one on this chap!) Is that who you believe is your gg father? If so, we need to find the link to the London Regt or KRRC! Simples? Not yet!! Maybe some of the other Family Trees might provide better links? Ah, THIS Baguley is in Woolwich Barracks as a driver in RHA St Matthews Barracks in Ipswich in 1911 Census, Sorry to drag all this up, but with a Baguley connection myself, just wanted to see if any connection with mine, but doesn't appear so at this stage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justingrimwood Posted 4 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2011 Kevin, No problem, I appreciate your help and it's always good to have a fresh pair of eyes looking at something like this so thank you. Victor John William is 100% my g-grandfather I have a picture of him in his RHA uniform and remember him when I was a child. The problem I have is that family sources confirm he did take part in the war however his service record for the RHA which I've obtained from Findmypast interestingly details him as being discharged after just 2 years of service in 1912, with reason 'services no longer required'. This therefore appeared to explain why I could not find a MIC for him with the RHA and so I suspect he re-joined or was enlisted under another regiment later in the war if he didn't re-volunteer. Cheers Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justingrimwood Posted 5 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2011 I forgot to mention that the other thing which leads me to believe it could be the same person is that my man lived in Ipswich and according to the London Reg unit history on the Long Long Trail the 2/2nd battalion in 1916 "Moved to Ipswich in June and Sutton Veny in July". I know this is only more circumstantial evidence but the date and location of the unit all fits. If only a service record existed - I wonder how many times that's been said! I suppose if it's possible to tie up the service number 67068 with a joining date that may help but I wouldn't know whether this is possible or where to start. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted 5 January , 2011 Share Posted 5 January , 2011 The 3/2nd Londons, as part of 3/1st London Brigade, moved from Bury St Edmonds to Ipswich in June 1915 and were billeted in the eastern part of the town on the Nacton and Felixstowe roads with Battalion HQ in Hatfield Road. In February 1916 the battalion received a draft of 230 men under the Derby scheme. In June 1916 the 3/2nd Londons became 2/2nd Londons moving to Sutton Veny near Warminster in July 1916 and finally moving to France in January 1917 as part of 173rd Brigade, 58th (2/1st London) Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 5 January , 2011 Share Posted 5 January , 2011 Justin, thanks for the clarification! What I don't understand is why, as he was already in the Army by 1911 as a driver in J battery, then any subsequent re enlistment/conscription would normally make use of his previous training and he'd therefore likely serve in an artillery role. It's unusual to see a peacetime soldier discharged after only 2 years, unless there was a medical problem. Maybe his medical problem resolved itself and with lower wartime criteria, they took him into the KRRC. Think I've gone about as far as my limited knowledge can take me! Hope you can find the link! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justingrimwood Posted 5 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2011 Mark, thanks for the information, I know those roads very well and even used to work in Felixstowe & Hatfield Rds without realising a battalion HQ existed there once upon a time! Kevin, unfortunately I have no details of why he was discharged from RHA after just 2 years in 1912 (sent home from Egypt by the looks of it). I'd have assumed a medical condition might have been stated in his record but as it was just 'Services no longer required' I believed it was likely he'd become an 'undesireable' character. Thanks for looking anyway, my search goes on Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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