breakaleg Posted 3 January , 2011 Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi, I am researching my Family tree, my grandfather (Hubert George Walker) I know little of,only met him twice (briefly) in 50 years, his children have all passed away except one, who said that his father never talked about the war. I have found his service book on ancestry, but there is little information in there except for the mention of: two Medals, (victory & Star) which I have seen his regimental number and a reference to the Theatre of War as G5? Could anyone enlighten me further please? Many thanks in advance. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 January , 2011 Admin Share Posted 3 January , 2011 The medal index card actually says '5 G' which is 'frontier regions of India' http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp There are a number of 'Hubert' and one other Hubert G in the mic are you sure you have the right one? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted 3 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi, His regimental number was 62111, same as on the medal's It also says GNR (is this short for gunner?) and R.H.A which I presume is for Royal Horse Artillery? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River97 Posted 3 January , 2011 Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Pete, Hubert was a Gunner in the Royal Horse Artillery. He was entitled to the 1914-15 Star. British War Medal and the Victory Medal. The date of entry into theatre was 29 August 1915. Now, the theatre code of 5G, as shown on the MIC, is somewhere in Asia. I have provided a link here to the list of theatre codes during the war. Unfortunately, it seems as though his service records were amongst the thousands lost during the second war. Cheers Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted 3 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi Andy, Thanks for the reply, would that be the fire through the bombing during ww2? I think that I have traced Hubert's father as well, only I can't be sure of the home address, There is no one left in the family to answer any simple questions. His father's name was Samuel Walker gnr 604165 R.H.A, same medals listed but followed by, 101 BT, presuming 101 battalion? Also I.F OR P WAR.RFA .TFM.7 Next to the Medals is page 143 next to both entries and next the other is138. There was another brother,Samuel James Walker, found him on the Worcester absent records listed as a shoeing smith? followed by the letters RFA. Should you have any thoughts on the above, I would be very grateful. Relatives have told me that Hubert went to India during the war, but that is all anyone knows. Many thanks Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 January , 2011 Admin Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi, His regimental number was 62111, same as on the medal's It also says GNR (is this short for gunner?) and R.H.A which I presume is for Royal Horse Artillery? Pete Sorry, you didn't say you had his medals in your original post. The best place to start researching a soldier is the parent site, the Long Long Trail http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/grandad.htm I'm not sure what you mean by 'service book', but, as above, can only find the mic on Ancestry. The RHA page is here http://www.1914-1918.net/rha.htm A quick scan shows there were only a few batteries remaining in India by 1915. There is no guarantee he remained there throughout the war, or with the same RHA unit, and he may have been posted to another theatre in the Middle East ,or even the Western Front. The RHA Medal Rolls, which are at the National Archives at Kew, may help you identify his unit. These are the numbers alongside his medal entitlement i.e. 'Victory' ''British' '15 Star' (as above post). Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted 3 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi Ken, Sorry about the omission, Im new to this and a little disorganised, wasn't until yesterday, that I realised that i had seen the Medals. Will follow the links and see how I get on. Many thanks Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 January , 2011 Admin Share Posted 3 January , 2011 I think that I have traced Hubert's father as well, only I can't be sure of the home address, There is no one left in the family to answer any simple questions. His father's name was Samuel Walker gnr 604165 R.H.A, same medals listed but followed by, 101 BT, presuming 101 battalion? Also I.F OR P WAR.RFA .TFM.7 Next to the Medals is page 143 next to both entries and next the other is138. There was another brother,Samuel James Walker, found him on the Worcester absent records listed as a shoeing smith? followed by the letters RFA. Should you have any thoughts on the above, I would be very grateful. Relatives have told me that Hubert went to India during the war, but that is all anyone knows. Sorry to jump back in but the reason I originally queried whether or not you had the right man is because it was very common for veterans not to talk about the war there was usually some family recollection if they were in India or some other 'exotic 'posting. Samuel Walker 604165 was a Territorial Force soldier who did not go overseas until after the 1st January 1916. He was entitled to the British War Medal and Victory Medal and a Territorial Force Medal, The latter was the least awarded medal and means he must have served as a TF soldier before the war;again see LLT http://www.1914-1918...d/themedals.htm This may be helpful because if you can find his address then the TF unit would have been local. As in previous post the 101 number is a reference to the Rolls (Battalion is an infantry unit). The LLT also has a section on interpreting the cards The other brother also served in the Artillery but in his case the Royal Field Artillery, does the AVL give his number? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted 3 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi Ken, the only number I can see is: xxi and Kidderminster Thank you for everything so far. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 January , 2011 Admin Share Posted 3 January , 2011 the only number I can see is: xxi and Kidderminster If you look at the RFA pages on the LLT http://www.1914-1918.net/rfa_units.htm you will see the RFA Brigades were designated with Roman Numerals (unfortunately XXI Brigade is shown as India and not Kidderminster!) it's never easy! There was probably a RFA Depot at Kidderminster where he was employed as a shoeing smith, I'm sure an RFA expert will tell you. There was a TF RFA unit raised at Kidderminster but that was CCXLI (not XXI) but at least shows the RFA had some sort of presence there. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted 3 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi Ken, Probably a daft question, but could he have switched to the regular Army during the war? only I see mention of xxi regular army and the 101 battalion in India. or am I clutching at straws. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 3 January , 2011 Admin Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Hi Ken, Probably a daft question, but could he have switched to the regular Army during the war? only I see mention of xxi regular army and the 101 battalion in India. or am I clutching at straws. Pete No daft questions but yes, probably clutching at straws As a sweeping generalisation from 1914 soldiers could enlist in the TF, New Army or as a Regular but from 1916 they were conscripted, as the war progressed all these different groups got mixed up due to reorganisations, losses etc. So it is possible someone who enlisted in the TF could find themselves in a New Army or Regular formation. The problem is we're trying to deal with 3 soldiers on one thread. Samuel (the father) was definitely a pre war TF soldier and probably remained so throughout the War, as evidenced by the award of the TF Medal and the 6 digit number (all TF Soldiers were renumbered in 1917). The 101 against the medal on the father's mic is the reference to the Rolls. So the full reference is RHA/101BT then the page number so essentially you turn up at TNA and use that number as a key to the TNA reference. You will be given a big book, turn to page 143 (for Samuel the elder) for the BWM and Victory Medal and page 138 for the TF Medal (I note Chris Baker says the RHA Rolls rarely give further information as to unit). It has nothing to do with the unit in which he served, but is simply an administrative reference. An expert on RHA numbers might be able to tell you when Hubert enlisted. He probably went out to India as a replacement as I can't see any unit that went out on the date he entered theatre. So again looking at the LLT you have elements of VIII, IX, XI and XII Brigades in india in 1915. To qualify for the Victory Medal and the 15 Star he must have entered a theatre of war before the end of 1915. This means he was not on garrison duty, by a process of elimination you can probably find which elements of the Army served on the NW Frontier prior to 1916 and once you've done that whether or not they remained there. As for Samuel James I think you need to do a bit more research on him. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 3 January , 2011 Share Posted 3 January , 2011 Its not a Territorial Force Medal, Its the Territorial Force War Medal (TFWM) Medal roll from RH & RFA Roll page 138 (TFWM) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted 4 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2011 Thank you both for your help (I have learnt a lot in a short time) I will print this information and do some more research, you have been very helpful, thank you Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 5 January , 2011 Share Posted 5 January , 2011 From Wikipedi The Territorial Force War Medal was a campaign medal awarded to members of the British Territorial Force and Territorial Force Nursing Services who served overseas in World War I; it is the rarest of the five British Great War medals. The medal was established in April 1920 for award to members of the Territorial Force and Territorial Force Nursing Services who volunteered for service overseas on or before 30 September 1914, and served overseas. They had to: * have been serving with the force on 4 August 1914 or * have completed four years service with the force before 4 August 1914 and rejoined the force on or before 30 September 1914 In addition provided they: * Undertook, either verbally or by written agreement on or before 30 September 1914 to serve outside the United Kingdom, such agreement being operative after 4 August 1914, and * Have served outside the United Kingdom between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918 (both dates inclusive; note that the last date was in 1918 though the years on the reverse said 1914-19) and * Did not qualify for the 1914 Star or 1914-15 Star Description * The medal is a circular bronze design of 36mm (1.42 in) diameter, with a straight bar suspender. The obverse shows a King George V bareheaded effigy, facing left, with the legend: GEORGIVS V BRITT : OMN : REX ET IND : IMP : * The reverse has a wreath with in centre FOR / VOLUNTARY / SERVICE / OVERSEAS / 1914-19, and around the upper outer edge TERRITORIAL WAR MEDAL * The ribbon is yellow with two green stripes, 32 mm (1.25 in) wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted 7 January , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 January , 2011 thanks themonsstar, I will print the iformation out (I find it easier to read on paper) Many thanks Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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