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Remembered Today:

Worst weapons nominations are...


PFF

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Aylwin huts: Francis Aylwin, formerly of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, had designed huts consisting of canvas stretched on wooden frames with mica windows and wooden floors. They could house six men and it was claimed that they could be erected in under two-and-a-half minutes and thousands had been ordered for Salisbury Plain and other military centres. Aylwin had made himself at home in such a building in sub-zero conditions in British Colombia, but claims that they provided weatherproof and comfortable accommodation for soldiers proved unfounded and they were soon discontinued - but not before a celluloid window in one at Hamilton Camp, Salisbury Plain, caught fire and a whole line of huts burnt down.

Several of the catapult and cricket-ball-throwing devices (eg West Spring Gun)designed to propel bombs (grenades); these were judged to be as dangerous to their users as to the enemy.

But the MacAdam shovel was worse, its uselessness being compounded by General Sam Hughes' insistence that it was a great asset in the face of overwhelming criticism. (I haven't come across anyone else thinking so, apart from his secretary, who's said to have suggested the device to him.)

Moonraker

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Not strickly a weapon, my nomination is the German Message Shell used to send paper messages to their own troops and fired by a trench mortar. What an amazing device, just try to imagine this in use, plunging out of the sky trailing showers of sparks and then landing goodness knows where, hopefully not on some poor soldiers head. Having then retrieved the shell and read the message what now? You could hardly fire a reply back. Considering that firing a shell at any target was at best an imprecise art this must rate as one of the more bizarre inventions of WW1. This example (arrowed) is in the Albert Museum, Somme.

2055401916_deeb128a87_z.jpg

Norman

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The "Ayrton Fan" - again, not a weapon but definitely paraphernalia. Flapper, canvas, with handle, wood, gas in trench for the dispersal of. To quote Simon Jones in "World War I Gas Warfare Tactics and Equipment" : "Troops found the handle useful for firewood".

For the positive opinion of a scientist who believed that the theory was correct but it had to be used correctly to be effective (i.e. it worked in the lab and was based on sound scientific theory) : see http://cwp.library.ucla.edu/articles/ayrton/ayrtonrem2.html

But I suppose all these things had to be tried, they were cheap and may just have turned out a success. But they appear to have come from above... the really useful cheap improvisations appear to have originated with troops themselves, such as jam-tin bombs.

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Old ideas die hard.

In the 1970s the modern German army had a "meldungpatrone" or "message cartridge". It was fired from the standard 26mm flare pistol and consisted of a plastic bullet, the top part of which could contain a message. It was designed to be fired from a helicopter to ground troops and left an orange smoke trail so that they could find it. All this was before the concept of the integrated battle field communication systems. How were they supposed to reply? Waving their arms?

Regards

TonyE

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But the MacAdam shovel was worse, its uselessness being compounded by General Sam Hughes' insistence that it was a great asset in the face of overwhelming criticism. (I haven't come across anyone else thinking so, apart from his secretary, who's said to have suggested the device to him.)

She didn't Hughes pinched the design (it was Swiss) and used her name to patent it so it wasn't blatantly obvious that he had a financial interest in getting the Canadian Army to buy it.

Wonder what his expense claims were like.

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Widely used but a hopeless design - the US M1910 long pack. If worn as intended the wearer could not sit down without taking it off. If hitched up so he could sit it forced his Brody forward over his eyes.

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I think it stands as a tribute to the educational accomplishments of the forum that no-one has rushed in, on the basis of hearsay, to nominate that traditional whipping-boy, the Chauchat automatic rifle.

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I think it stands as a tribute to the educational accomplishments of the forum that no-one has rushed in, on the basis of hearsay, to nominate that traditional whipping-boy, the Chauchat automatic rifle.

Or possibly to the opening line of the top post

"Most useless paraphernalia for World War I nominations are..."

As a weapon the Chauchat deserved everything it got.

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Now, now, let's not start the Chauchat chat again!

....or should that be chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, bu***r, it's jammed again!

Actually the 8mm original was not so bad (apart from the magazine), it was when the Americans tried to make it in .30-06 that it all went seriously pear shaped.

Regards

TonyE

(Ducking below parapet yet again)

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How can you beat a shell that you fire at your own troops in the forlorn hope that someone will see it flying through the air trailing a shower of sparks, retrieve the no doubt red-hot shell, remove the message and then take said message to whosoever it may concern? If there is a more useless WW1 weapon/device which has the ability to kill or injure your own side then I have yet to see it. I thereby claim the cash prize in the "Worst Weapon Competition".

PS Please make out the cheque to "Cash"

PPS See also:

Flickr - Message Shell

Yours Sincerely

Norman

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How can you beat a shell that you fire at your own troops in the forlorn hope that someone will see it flying through the air trailing a shower of sparks, retrieve the no doubt red-hot shell, remove the message and then take said message to whosoever it may concern?

Why assume that its red hot? There were two types of message shell The one that trailed sparks was fired from a form of spigot mortar (not to be confused with the Granatenwerfer) specially made for the task and not from a barrel and had a low velocity. The Hales signal rocket http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=83787&view=findpost&p=778524 had been used for the same task for generations . This message shell proved very useful in circumstances where positions were cut off by enemy forces. The type shown by Tony was fired from 7.6-cm minenwerfer and was supposed to eject the message over the cut off position firing the flare at the same time.

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the 9th Royal Welsh Fusiliers Cleddyd (or Cledd) as bought and issued to the Battalion by Lord Howard De Walden in 1916/1917.

anyone who has handled a real version

a. wonders how to hold it

b. wonders how to lift it

c. wonders how to use it.

the best idea would be to either throw it at the enemy [as a blunt instrument] or drop it on his foot.

Any record of anyone being other than bruised by one, or dying of larfter?

Please make out the cheque to Mrs Grumpy ..... I owe her.

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Nope nice shot but no cigar As can be seen this message shell proved very useful in circumstances where positions were cut off by enemy forces. The specialised German launcher could also be used to send up distress flares and was so light that even small units would have one. Indeed so useful that a new version was produced and used in WW2 (the message capsule even carried a pencil to allow replies to be written). The French used a specialized rifle grenade for the same purpose. They had a range of 350 yards and were "used to send messages from one trench section to another over heavily engaged areas".

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the 9th Royal Welsh Fusiliers Cleddyd (or Cledd) as bought and issued to the Battalion by Lord Howard De Walden in 1916/1917.

anyone who has handled a real version

a. wonders how to hold it

b. wonders how to lift it

c. wonders how to use it.

the best idea would be to either throw it at the enemy [as a blunt instrument] or drop it on his foot.

Any record of anyone being other than bruised by one, or dying of larfter?

Please make out the cheque to Mrs Grumpy ..... I owe her.

Has part of this post been curtailed? (or possibly just dogeared!)

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Has part of this post been curtailed? (or possibly just dogeared!)

I hereby certify that I am of soundish mind and in full possession of what remains of my facilities and therefore that any winnings regarding said cledd should be paid in full, legal tender, to Mrs Grumpy of this Parish, in whom we trust.

Here endeth the garcon. [no cidilla thingy to hand].

Someone at door, white van, men in white c

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No what I meant was it starts halfway through a sentence which suggests the bit about whatever it was that De Walden bought and issues is missing! I'm all agog.

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Turns out the men with white coasts went next door, neighbour says I am driving his dad, so I had him sexioned.

To return to the subject, your reverence.

1. I just took thread title and [knowing how much I dislike said cledd]

2. did a quick GWF search,

3. found a suitable pithy sentence,

4. plagiarised, cut and pasted it without due acknowledgement in true GWF spirit,

5. and hey Presto, herewith, QED and hasta la vista.

That will be sick squid, please.

I'll swap it for a cidilla the Hun.

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I would suggest Mauser 13,2 mm Tank Abwehr Gewehr Mod. 18, despite being sorta cool and being a legitmate need to defend against tanks this was just not the way to do it.

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Turns out the men with white coasts went next door, neighbour says I am driving his dad, so I had him sexioned.

To return to the subject, your reverence.

1. I just took thread title and [knowing how much I dislike said cledd]

2. did a quick GWF search,

3. found a suitable pithy sentence,

4. plagiarised, cut and pasted it without due acknowledgement in true GWF spirit,

5. and hey Presto, herewith, QED and hasta la vista.

That will be sick squid, please.

I'll swap it for a cidilla the Hun.

David, if there's anything left in the bottle of whatever it is you're drinking, could I please have a glass ... :D

As for the pistol bayonet and the T-Gewehr, how could anything so neat (and so valuable) possibly be the worst anything.

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