PhilB Posted 20 June , 2004 Share Posted 20 June , 2004 In a 1915 Army List, under "Acting Army Chaplains" there are listed 486 CofE, 81 Presbyterian, 207 RC, 90 Wesleyan, 72 United Board (Baptist, Congregationalist, Primitive Methodist and United Methodist), 7 Welsh Calvinistic Methodist and 1 Jewish chaplains. Does this indicate that the badges and insignia of a Jewish chaplain would be the rarest of WW1? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 20 June , 2004 Share Posted 20 June , 2004 In a 1915 Army List, under "Acting Army Chaplains" there are listed 486 CofE, 81 Presbyterian, 207 RC, 90 Wesleyan, 72 United Board (Baptist, Congregationalist, Primitive Methodist and United Methodist), 7 Welsh Calvinistic Methodist and 1 Jewish chaplains. Does this indicate that the badges and insignia of a Jewish Chaplain would be the rarest of WW1? Phil B Undoubtedly as the other denominations all wore the same Christian Cap & Collar Badges of the Crowned Cross Patee,though as the War Progressed there must have been further Jewish Chaplains,wearing the Star of David Cap Badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 20 June , 2004 Share Posted 20 June , 2004 By the time of the end of the war the number of Jewish chaplains serving with the RAChD had risen to 16; Home – 4, BEF – 8, MEF – 3 and Salonika -1 There were other minorities represented in the Department eg. the Welsh Calvanist had 10 and the Salvation Army 5, but as Harry points out they probably wore the standard badge Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 20 June , 2004 Share Posted 20 June , 2004 I think that we have to be careful not to confuse two issues in this discussion. It appears to be a fact that there were few Jewish chaplains but that does not, in itself, mean that the badge for a Jewish chaplain is rare. The rarity of the badge is determined by how many badges were produced and how many exist today, not by the number of chaplains that were Jewish. The former is not necessarily determined by the latter. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 20 June , 2004 Share Posted 20 June , 2004 I think that we have to be careful not to confuse two issues in this discussion. It appears to be a fact that there were few Jewish chaplains but that does not, in itself, mean that the badge for a Jewish chaplain is rare. The rarity of the badge is determined by how many badges were produced and how many exist today, not by the number of chaplains that were Jewish. The former is not necessarily determined by the latter. Regards. Dick Flory Too True but over production of an Officers Badge would not have been made to supply a demand that didnt exist,Original Badges supplied by Military Tailors would be scarce,by the very nature of the beast.Most of the extant Badges today are Restrikes,Reproductions or whatever Euphamism is used to describe Fakes these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 21 June , 2004 Share Posted 21 June , 2004 Given the entire lack of response to my plea for help with a pair of 4DG shoulder titles I think they must also qualify. I am begining to think I would be better off requesting a sack of rocking horse manure! So if there is anyone out there who knows anything about getting hold of some please Heeeeeeeelp! Disappointedly David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 21 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2004 Quote:-Given the entire lack of response to my plea for help with a pair of 4DG shoulder titles I think they must also qualify. Not really, bcerha. Each man would have 2, so there must have been at least, say, 1000 in the regiment at a time. (Assuming a cavalry regt to be about 500 men) Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcerha Posted 21 June , 2004 Share Posted 21 June , 2004 Phil, You are absolutely right - I guess at least a 1000 even if you only counted those 500 odd soldiers serving at the outset of the war in 1914. The trouble is I cannot seem to track down a single one! I am sorry, this is not really the place to voice you're frustrations but I guess after hunting for almost two years solid you can understand why!!! I won't do it again Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 21 June , 2004 Share Posted 21 June , 2004 Each man would have 2, so there must have been at least, say, 1000 in the regiment at a time. (Assuming a cavalry regt to be about 500 men) Phil B And the rest! They were worn from the late 1880's through to 1922, and each soldier would have had more than one pair each (especially pre-war, where they had more than one style of uniform). I'd estimate that each soldier would have had at least 6 (single) titles each up to WW1. There are at least 4 different styles of the 4DG title to be encountered, and there must have been literally thousands made! (I've seen a few in my travels, but I haven't actually been looking for them). It might be a little difficult to find, but I wouldn't describe it as "rare" (one Manchester City Battalion title that I've been looking for and never found isn't "rare" as such. It's just that I've never found one yet!) dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 21 June , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2004 So, it`s fair to assume that not many "real" Jewish chaplains` badges were produced. However, it`s quite possible that the number of repros made of a badge would increase as the rarity of the badge increased (supply and demand). So there might be lots of repros around. Another consideration is that possibly only one set of dies existed and that set would have to survive for repros to be made. Is it a badge that often appears in sales lists? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 21 June , 2004 Share Posted 21 June , 2004 So, it`s fair to assume that not many "real" Jewish chaplains` badges were produced. However, it`s quite possible that the number of repros made of a badge would increase as the rarity of the badge increased (supply and demand). So there might be lots of repros around. Another consideration is that possibly only one set of dies existed and that set would have to survive for repros to be made. Is it a badge that often appears in sales lists? Phil B More than one company would have produced the Badges,which I assume like Officers Badges had to be Purchased,so there would have been more than one set of Dies/Moulds[Many Bronze Officer Badges being Cast as opposed to struck]I suspect that many more appear on lists than ever existed on Padre's Caps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 21 June , 2004 Share Posted 21 June , 2004 Given the entire lack of response to my plea for help with a pair of 4DG shoulder titles I think they must also qualify. I am begining to think I would be better off requesting a sack of rocking horse manure! So if there is anyone out there who knows anything about getting hold of some please Heeeeeeeelp! Disappointedly David Patience its what collecting is all about,they are likely to turn up when least expected!,its the price we pay for looking for items to unusual units! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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