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4thGordons

Consenvoye / Brabant Area: Oct 1918

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4thGordons

Does anyone have any maps showing the trenches/defences around Consenvoye (East of the Meuse, NNW of Verdun) in October 1918?

I suspect this will probably be a French or German map if such exists.

[Edit - I think the area I am most interested in is bordered by the D964to the East and the D123to the West.]

I have obtained a couple of photos which are annotated as Consenvoye and I am interested in attempting to further pin them down as well as trace the action between Forges, Brabant and Consenvoye on Oct 8th 1918.

It appears a couple of trenches in the immediate vicinity of Consenvoye are named: "Unquiar Trench" and "Magabe Trench"

Many thanks in advance

Chris

Edited by 4thGordons

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CROONAERT

I've got quite a decent batch of maps for this battlefield, but the latest that I have for this specific place, unfortunately, is dated November 23rd 1916.

I don't know if its any good to you, but here's an extract anyway...

post-357-022562900 1293029376.jpg

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4thGordons

I've got quite a decent batch of maps for this battlefield, but the latest that I have for this specific place, unfortunately, is dated November 23rd 1916.

I don't know if its any good to you, but here's an extract anyway...

Thanks very much indeed - that is super.

I will scan and post an aerial photo which appears to match with this quite closely.

May I ask what is probably a question from ignorance - are the trench lines marked on this map French or German trenches?

I see much of the annotation is in French so I would assume the former but.....

Thanks very much again

Chris

EDIT:

post-14525-069750400 1293031311.jpg

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CROONAERT
.

May I ask what is probably a question from ignorance - are the trench lines marked on this map French or German trenches?

They're German. (French trenches are shown in red, German in blue on the majority of French and German trench maps)

Dave

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CROONAERT

A closer view for you (an almost identical set of trenches, though this is dated October 1916)...

post-357-058594600 1293035265.jpg

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Martin Feledziak

Nice map - Here it is overlaid on Google Earth.

This is the resting place of a great Uncle.

The Military Cemetery at Consenvoye

He was wounded on hill 304 but died some days later in the hospital at Stennay.

post-103138-0-43675800-1429606664_thumb.

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Tom Lang

Great work!

My hat's off to each of you!

Kindest Regards,

Tom Lang.

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4thGordons

Excellent stuff.

I have acquired several other maps and accounts of action in this area in Oct 1918. I will post what I have.

Chris

post-14525-0-31152300-1429842737_thumb.j

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4thGordons

I am currently working on an account of the fighting in this area which will hopefully be part of a general study of the 33rd Div.

post-14525-0-04463000-1429842556_thumb.j

post-14525-0-69912900-1429842556_thumb.j

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Martin Feledziak

Very interesting Chris.

Here are a couple of stills taken in the general zone.

This one has the Meuse river in the background.

post-103138-0-79690900-1429870675_thumb.

This is looking back towards Consenvoye.

post-103138-0-32233600-1429870658_thumb.

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Gerard Martin

Dear Chris - I found your posts here just now. I'm trying to reconstruct the life of Lt. John Lyon (29th Div, 116 I.R.) , who was raised in the same neighborhood I live in, here in Arlington VA. He was KIA on October 15th, East of Consenvoye, close to Molville Farm. I wonder if you have (or can guide me to) the corresponding sketched maps for the 29th Div., as they operated side by side with the 33rd Div.

Nice pictures too! 

Regards, Gerard

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Martin Feledziak
16 hours ago, Gerard Martin said:

maps

 

Gerard,

Here is a link to some excellent maps. All you could possibly need.

 

I have underlined Molleville Farm on the below image - you can also see the date Too 15 October.

 

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/ww1/

 

5af56f2fb3371_MollevilleFarm.jpg.dc3644f4c4d2bfa52a3e89c2d4452d87.jpg

 

 

txu-pclmaps-oclc-6205448-29th-division-m

Edited by Martin Feledziak

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4thGordons

Excellent stuff! Thanks for posting those Martin.

Gerard - I will have a look and see if I have any overlapping 29th Div maps.

Chris

 

I ASSUME YOU HAVE THIS -- BUT IF NOT - @p162-167 should be of interest - it also gives the MAP REFERENCES

VERDUN B Map 225.6-281.7 (for Molleville Farm)

 

MAPS are @ p140 (there are 4 of them) and then there are some small ones at the very back

Edited by 4thGordons
add link

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JOVE23

This is mildly off-topic but close enough that I thought it would work here.

 

How does the decimal system with Lambert projections work? I've run into a bit of a problem with my man Max and I want to know what I'm doing wrong (because I'm convinced I'm the one in the wrong here).

 

Max's burial coordinates are noted as 304.3 282.4 (on the Verdun A map it's just 04.3, 82.4), which according to my calculations would be around here:

 

No automatic alt text available.

 

However, every calculation I've done has put me closer to here: https://goo.gl/maps/dJXfQ6KWDHC2

 

I know it's close, but I want to know what accounts for the difference - I'm assuming it's either not a 10x10 sub-grid (maybe 5x5 or 8x8 or something else) or the projection doesn't map exactly to a sub-grid level? I'd like to get this down pat before I start dissecting burial plat maps!

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Martin Feledziak

Justin I think you are right -

It is just the same as our original plotting.

(I have not heard much about Lambert projection and there is very little about it on the net.)

 

plot.jpg.efc7c139d497dcf801776da0686bcf06.jpg.995b80be3bf6419d2ab1d0894504931c.jpg

 

The left section describes the location.

IE - GRAVE LOCATION BLANK form.

At location 04.3 - 82.4

Near Bois De Chene Sec

using GROUPS DES CANVES DE TIR Map - ( Very Map- VERDUN ) June 1918

 

The right section is from that map and I have added the blue Co-Ordinates 04.3 - 82.4

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Martin Feledziak

so here is my rough overlay of your map on Google Earth.

 

overlay.jpg.5bc3300a6eacd5a03a37e4df6eab6e8e.jpg

 

And below zoomed into your cross with the overlay off.

I don't think that road, North of your pin, was present in 1918.

(This is all just guess work though.)

 

478988849_withoutoverlay.jpg.72f872f0566c8b91ae414f5ccc0bbb42.jpg

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