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PhilB

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PhilB

This photo brought home to me that trench foot was not just a temporary unpleasantness. Phil B

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marina

Tim - ah, bless him, I've looked again - he's loaded with charm and the girls came flocking!

Phil - I had no idea what trench foot was actually like - thought it was like severe athlete's foot or something, but it's ghastly.

Marina

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ianw

Some real horrors here and I also agree that the group shot that has prompted all the speculation is really great - you just can't help but speculate what happened to them and what they were like.

Bearing in mind the above I would like to nominate the footage of the Lancashire Fusiliers taken pre-battle in the sunken road at Beaumont Hamel from "The Battle of the Somme" film. You actually stare into their eyes and try to lip read their comments. I find this difficult to do knowing that many will have died within a few yards of where the film was taken. Is their look accusatory, resigned or what ?

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HarryBettsMCDCM
Tim - ah, bless him, I've looked again - he's loaded with charm and the girls came flocking!

Phil - I had no idea what trench foot was actually like - thought it was like severe athlete's foot or something, but it's ghastly.

Marina

It is similar to the disease that Sheep farmed on level Flat fields,with poor drainage, get;Foot Rot,the Skin & Flesh becomes infected due to prolonged dampness and literally begins to Rot alive,Very Nasty.Pass the Talc!

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Andrew Upton

Talking of the film "The Battle of the Somme", next time you're in or around Exeter, go and have a look at the film museum in the Old Library at the University. I went on Tuesday to look at Charlie Chaplins suit and cane which are currently on display, and an old camera caught my eye. This was proudly displayed alongside a book showing a photograph of a man in steel helmet and officers uniform with no badges of rank, alongside the same camera. This was J.B.McDowell - the man who filmed the battle, and was the very camera he used on that and many other days. The sights that lens had seen...

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Landsturm

I too think that one of the most horrendous pictures are those of "men with broken faces" and there is this one picture that struck me few years ago when I saw it for the first time in Photos of the Great War`s special exhibition called "The Absolute Truth", u already might know it.

post-8-1088378565.jpg

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Guest AmericanDoughboy

Most likely a photograph that I am very fond of due it's showing of how the trenches of Verdun were "mere ditches" and that they were overly crowded with exhausted and terror stricken French soldiers. This still is from the groundbreaking British television series: World War I in Colour

post-8-1088540336.gif

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AndyHollinger

Cameras changed our preception of warfare - to be sure. From Crimea to today ... the window into hell makes (hopefully) people think ... But, I am often reminded that some of Brady's best pictures - like the dead rebel sharpshooter from Devil's Den were posed - not that it changes much ... but remember the photo is not always a candid window into hell.

- When I watched the film clip from the Somme movie - I think it was at the IWM - all I could think about was these guys were going to die in a few minutes and all of it was 90 years back ... the survivors went on to live lives and are dead now ... but here I am watching them laugh and mug for the camera - just as it happened so long ago.

As you might guess ... Lauren had to keep me moving along and brought all sorts of extra Klenex for my eyes that day.

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KateJ
Bearing in mind the above I would like to nominate the footage of the Lancashire Fusiliers taken pre-battle in the sunken road at Beaumont Hamel from "The Battle of the Somme" film. You actually stare into their eyes and try to lip read their comments. I find this difficult to do knowing that many will have died within a few yards of where the film was taken. Is their look accusatory, resigned or what ?

I'm with you on that one - it's the photos of the men in the minutes before the start of battle that does it for me. The one that gets me every time is the chap in the trench staring right into the camera (sorry don't know what regiment he was) - he is wearing a very distinctive ring (don't have the photo to hand).

At the end of May, for the first time I visited the Somme. It was the most spookiest feeling I've ever had standing in Sunken Lane and then looking at White City where the camera man had been hiding.

Kate

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Guest AmericanDoughboy

Probably one of my most favorable footage of the World War was when infantry of the 29th Division runs across No Man's Land of the First Day of the Somme and one man slowly falls into the British wire.

Video Still:

post-8-1088627343.gif

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Guest dinkidi

Americandoughboy.

That particular film could have been faked.

ooRoo

Pat

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Guest AmericanDoughboy
Americandoughboy.

That particular film could have been faked.

ooRoo

Pat

Pat,

It wasn't, it was filmed as a part of the "Battle of the Somme" newsreel film of the First Day on the Battle of the Somme. It was actually filmed in 1916 during the battle, it is a very famous piece of film. As well as it is featured in Martin Middlebrook's "The First Day of the Somme" book and if it was posed, Martin Middlebrook would have stated "As this is a posed photograph..." and so on. I am positive it isn't fake.

-Doughboy

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andigger

AD..... I heard that that film and the other with the soldiers jumping out of the trench into the fog were filmed as part of a US gov't war bond campaign in New Jersey. I can't prove it, but I do recall one of the 'give aways' on the trench video was that one of the men 'dies' before he ever gets over the top. Andy

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Guest AmericanDoughboy
AD..... I heard that that film and the other with the soldiers jumping out of the trench into the fog were filmed as part of a US gov't war bond campaign in New Jersey. I can't prove it, but I do recall one of the 'give aways' on the trench video was that one of the men 'dies' before he ever gets over the top. Andy

They were filmed as a part of a newsreel to show British Audiences what was occuring the frontline. The film "The Battle of the Somme" was the first film ever to show British Audiences real death on camera.

post-8-1088640871.gif

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Guest AmericanDoughboy
Dontfinkso!

I'm not going to respond to that immature comment because it could result in a hideous argument. However, for proof I could show you an actual Imperial War Museum scan of them speaking of the Battle of the Somme.

The film The Battle of the Somme was released while the battle was actually in progress, and was the first to show death in battle to a British audience. Some if it's sequences were filmed out of the line, but others, like this still of a Vickers machine gunner, are geuine combat scenes.

If you would like me to scan it I would be happy to.

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Auimfo

Doughboy,

I think you might find the others are correct. I too have read and heard that this piece of footage was 'staged' for the movie. It would be excellent if you are able to prove otherwise since this footage would be sensational if actually 'real'.

Tim L.

P.S. Don't mind Pat - he likes to stir the pot me thinks!!

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andigger
The film The Battle of the Somme was released while the battle was actually in progress, and was the first to show death in battle to a British audience. Some if it's sequences were filmed out of the line, but others, like this still of a Vickers machine gunner, are geuine combat scenes.

American Doughboy..... honestly not wanting to add fuel to a fire, but I think your quite is accurate and the video is staged.

Notice in the quote it says the video was released during the battle. However, it doesn't tie the video to a real battle (the Somme or otherwise). Plus the quote below refers to a Vickers crew, not the men going over the top disappearing into a fog.

Like Tim says if you can prove otehrwise, great! I'll stand corrected. HOwever I think this is actually a product of the American film industry trying to put a real face on the war to generate positive sentiment towards involvement.

by the by... there is a similar video from WWII which proports to show an almost endless line of children leaving an concentration camp. Despite the fact it was a product of Soviet propoganda (if you notice the details, the children are all rather plump and not in the least hungry) it is consistantly used by the history channel as 'real' footage, much like the pictures you referenced.

Andy

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Guest dinkidi
he likes to stir the pot me thinks!!

Tim

Finkso?

If it leads to a bit more thinking, rather than regurgitating somefin we read on the Web, maybe I've done my job!

ooRoo

Pat

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andigger

what does ooRoo mean anyway....

Also another thought... this thread has turned into an excellent example of a Live CHat session.....

Just a thought. :P

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Guest dinkidi

G'day Dig!

ooRoo is a personalised form of Good Bye eee! Toodleoo! etc

Just a bit shorter than "You have a nice day, now!"

Pat.

If we were on live chat your mate there would find it difficult to ignore my "dontfinkso" whilst refuting it so eloquently. And why deny the benefit of his research to the wider audience?

Bye now!

Pat

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Guest AmericanDoughboy

Well, as many books, including The First Day on the Somme by Martin Middlebrook, the picture is dubbed as "29th Division Infantrymen Running Across No Man's Land on 1st July" I just have a 90% feeling that it wasn't posed. Anyway, let us move on. :)

-Doughboy

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Guest dinkidi
Anyway, let us move on. :)

-Doughboy

A.D.

Roughly translated to "Lets get the Hell outa here"?

I'd rather hang around and hope that someone posts a definitive answer!

ooRoo

Pat

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Guest AmericanDoughboy

I suppose this could support my reasoning...

This picture [photograph that I have shown] captures the front-line drama of the Somme advance on July 1st, 1916. The photographer records the progress across the barbed wire into smoke and gunfire...

~ From the book World War I by S. L. A. Marshall.

-Doughboy

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doogal
Probably one of my most favorable footage of the World War was when infantry of the 29th Division runs across No Man's Land of the First Day of the Somme and one man slowly falls into the British wire.

I realise the following are very broad comments when the scale and complexity of the first attacks are taken into account, but what struck me when considering this part of the thread was that on the First Day of The Somme, I had always understood the soldiers were told to wear full kit (or similar - too much to be fleet of foot at least) and to walk across no-man's land in expectation of a big breakthrough. The men in this footage appear to have limited kit. Also, considering the amount of men who went over the top on day 1, these images seem fairly sparsely populated, and not wishing to sound bloodthirsty - not many are getting killed. I realise the latter could be a result of careful shot selection but still, one dead?

I have no specific knowledge of the "reality", or provenance of the footage, but I too have for many years accepted this as at least staged, but would be interested to see if this is genuinely the case.

doogal

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