Lieut-Commander Fry later in ADRIC

[corisande]

Another full stop I am afraid

He was born Robert Kendall Fry and joined RE as a Sapper (correct mother as next of kin) RE discovered he was Naval Architect, but really did nothing with him.

Eventually left the RE as physically unfit in Oct 1918

Full Service Record on Ancestry and I have put the details of his life on this page

[ARABIS]

There is another possibility. The Navy List for November 1924 gives Robert Fry RNR as in post #16, and also Arthur William Fry RNR. Listed as a Paymaster Commander in 1924, Arthur Fry had been a Paymaster Lieutenant Commander from 2nd May 1917 to 30th December 1922. It might explain the clerical connection.

David.

[corisande]

Thanks David

I will get to work on him and see if he holds water!

Again he looks promising

[corisande]

Arthur William Fry is still in with a shout, but not enough to be certain. So between him and Robert at the moment.

Page on him on this link

It would seem probable that this is the right man all the way from cradle to grave. A Bank Clerk, from a well educated father (Higher Grade 2 Civil Servant at Treasury)

His service details are somewhat sparse but he was certainly a Lt Commander in 1921, but I cannot link him to Dublin

I have tried to find any descendants on genealogy web sites but cannot

[mhifle]

1911 Census

84 Hillfield Avenue Hornsey N

FRY, James Head Married M 61 1850 Civil Servant Staff Clerk Treasury Hornchurch Essex

FRY, Alice Mary Wife Married

35 years F 60 1851 City of London

FRY, Harold George Son Single M 31 1880 Civil Servant 3rd Class Supplementary G P O Clerkenwell Middlesex

FRY, Arthur William Son Single M 29 1882 Bank Clerk Finchley Middlesex

FRY, Eustace Charles Son Single M 27 1884 Bank Clerk Finchley Middlesex

FRY, Clarence Walter Son Single M 24 1887 Insurance Clerk South Mimms Middlesex

FRY, Cyril Vernon Son Single M 21 1890 Clerk South Mimms Middlesex

GILL, Ellen Servant Single F 21 1890 General Servant Domestic Hackney London

Regards Mark

[mhifle]

This is from The Times 11 Feb 1935 he was also at the same venue 11 Feb 1933

Regards Mark

[mhifle]

25 May 1930

HMS CYCLOPS

[corisande]

Thanks Mark, I have added those snippets

Odd him being on Cyclops - I really have no idea what Paymaster Lt Commanders did except presumably paid the troops. But Cyclops does not look like the place to find such a man

The single-funnelled Cyclops was commissioned at Devonport on 5 November 1907 as Home Fleet repair ship. Always known as the Cycle Box, she was at first nominal depot ship for trawlers of the Northern Flotilla and served the whole of the First World War at Scapa Flow where, as well as being repair ship, she acted as an Auxiliary Patrol depot ship. Paid off on 1 April 1919, she was recommissioned for White Sea duty at Archangel. She returned to Chatham in October 1919 and on 31 January 1920 went into the Nore reserve for refit and conversion to a submarine depot ship.

One wonders if Russia might be a clue here. Many of the men who volunteered for Ireland were in Russia in 1919.

[ARABIS]

A bit more info on Robert & Arthur William Fry.

Robert.

Seniority as Lt. RNR, 1/7/13.

Appointed to Merchant Fleet Auxiliary Otway 23/11/14, still there Nov. 16. Otway was an armed merchant cruiser commissioned 11/11/14, torpedoed & sunk 23/7/17.

Appointed to command Torpedo Boat 115 21/8/17, still there Dec. 18.

Lt. Cdr., seniority 1/7/21.

He had done a short course in signals & a combined gunnery/torpedo short course.

Arthur William.

Assistant Paymaster, seniority 29/11/04.

Appointed to MFA Alcinous 3/8/14.

Appointed to MFA Umgeni 30/12/14.

Appointed to Thalia, base ship Cromarty/Peterhead 1/1/15 for miscellaneous duties, still there Oct. 17.

Thalia replaced by Nairn in March 18 & he is borne as additional at Aberdeen, still there Dec. 18.

Awarded RD, Edinburgh Gazette 20/7/20, page 1072.

RNR officers were recruited from officers of the Merchant Marine so I would expect Arthur William to have been something like a Purser rather than a bank clerk. I would have thought that Paymasters recruited from civilian life would be RNVR. Paymasters were part of the Accountant Branch which was responsible for the administration of the navy including pay, victualling etc.

David.

[corisande]

Thanks,

So I am no nearer getting the civilian lives of either of these men. However if one looks at their service records is the suggestion that between the two currently in the frame that "Robert" is more probable than "Paymaster Arthur"

I have added the Naval careers of both men below as I know them, and put the Drumcondra Murder details in italics against each.

Either fits in as much as they are both "Lt-Commander Fry" on that date.

Robert Fry

1911 Jul 1. RNR Prob Sub-Lt Robert Fry has been confirmed in that rank

1911 Oct 21. RNR Sub-Lt R Fry to HMS Vernon & HMS Excellent on T&G course

1912 Jul 26. RNR. Acting Lt R Fry to HMS Bristol to complete 12 months training

1913 Jul 1. Seniority as Lt. RNR,

1914 Nov 23. Appointed to Merchant Fleet Auxiliary Otway still there Nov. 1916. Otway was an armed merchant cruiser commissioned 11/11/14, torpedoed & sunk 23/7/17.

1917 Aug 21. Appointed to command Torpedo Boat 115 still there Dec. 1918.

1921 Jan 10 "Lt-Commander Fry" employed as a "temporary clerk" in office of Chief of Police in Dublin Castle.

1921 Feb 9. Drumcondra Murders

1921 Apr 12. Trial of King, Hinchcliffe and Welsh for murder. "Lt Commander Fry" a witness

1921 Jul 1. RNR. Lieuts. (act. Lieut.-Cdrs.) to be Lieut Cdrs. Robert Fry. He had done a short course in signals & a combined gunnery/torpedo short course.

1922 Jan 31. RD awarded. The RD was established in 1908, as a long service award for RNR officers. Original requirement was 15 years service, discounting service as a midshipman.

1922 Sept 27. RNR. Lt-Cdr R Fry, R.D to "Warspite"for training

1927 Apr 13. R.N.R. Lt.-Cdr. R. Fry, R.D., placed on Retd. List with rank of Cdr.

Paymaster Arthur William Fry

1904 Nov 29. The undermentioned Acting Assistant Paymasters have been confirmed in the rank of Assistant Paymaster, Arthur William Fry.

1909 Jul 31. A W Fry Assistant Paymaster posted to HMS Cochrane

1910 Sep 10. Assistant Paymaster RNR to Venus, A W Fry. Additional for training.

1914 Aug 3. Appointed to MFA Alcinous

1914 Dec 30. Appointed to MFA Umgeni

1915 Jan 1. Appointed to Thalia, base ship Cromarty/Peterhead for miscellaneous duties, still there Oct. 1917.

1917 May 2. Assistant Paymaster RNR to Paymaster Lt Commander

1918 Mar 18. Thalia replaced by Nairn in March 18 & he is borne as additional at Aberdeen, still there Dec. 18.

1920 Jul 20 Awarded RD, Edinburgh Gazette

1921 Jan 10 "Lt-Commander Fry" employed as a "temporary clerk" in office of Chief of Police in Dublin Castle.

1921 Feb 9. Drumcondra Murders

1921 Apr 12. Trial of King, Hinchcliffe and Welsh for murder. "Lt Commander Fry" a witness

1922 Dec 30 Paymaster Lt Commander Arthur W Fry RD to Paymaster Commander

1924 Listed as Paymaster Commander

1930 May 30. Attended reunion dinner of officers who had served on HMS Cyclops during WW1

1932 Jan 1. RNR Paymaster Commander A W Fry RD, placed on retired list

1933 Feb 11. Attended RNR accounting officers reunion dinner in London

1935 Feb 11. Attended RNR accounting officers reunion dinner in London

1950 Died Wood Green, Middlesex

[mhifle]

Hi,

This is from the Manchester Guardian 13 April 1921. 'Police Adviser's Staff'

Regards Mark

[corisande]

Thanks Mark

I am rapidly discovering that "Police Adviser's staff" is a very murky area.

Some of them appear to be both ADRIC men and serving British Officers. And some others may be one or other of these or neither

[mhifle]

Hi,

This is from the Irish Times 22 Feb 1921

Regards Mark

[corisande]

No wonder they were complaining in London that policing in Ireland was costing too much!

[alf mcm]

Corisande,

  You mentioned on another thread that you still hadn't found out who Commander Fry was. There are records available now which were not online in 2010. The National Archives indicates that Robert Fry was born on 13th April 1882. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14619003

  The 1939 Register shws him living at 4 Bellevue Road, Ealing, and working as a Parks Inspector & Cash Collector. The Register confirms his date of birth, and that he was living with his wife Charlotte and 15-year old daughter Nadine. https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=TNA%2FR39%2F0718%2F0718J%2F006%2F33

  Robert had married Charlotte Squire in Somerset in the 3rd quarter 1922.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

[corisande]

Revisiting this as I came across some more evidence on Arthur George Fry whom I  put as a possible in one of my earlier posts.

 

I came across this, who is the said A G Fry. And have a full page on him with his Military History from 1900 - Click for Fry's life history

 

 

The plus points pointing to him are that he served as a clerk  in the Chief of Police's office. The minus point is that he is not a Lt-Commander (but that could have been a smoke screen)

 

If it was in fact him, then it would be chilling if someone British in Dublin had tried to take him out

 

Anyway it his renewed my interest in AG Fry !