RN Service Record Card query

[daveB_UK]

I'm trying to get to grips with my G-Uncle's RN service card (attached). Thomas Arthur Hutchings served his training on HMS Ganges before going into active service on HMS Edgar, then onto Victory followed by Excellent. But its the next ship - Caesar (Ladybird)? which confuses me. Is this HMS Ladybird? Also its not at all clear what ship is below this - any ideas?

Is there anywhere that I can find out, knowing the dates aboard ship, where he went and which if any, combats he was involved in?

Thanks very much.

ThosArthurHutchings_J38989.pdf

[horatio2]

HMS LADYBIRD was the gunboat he served in. Her depot ship (pay, admin, etc) was HMS CAESAR at Constantinople and then HMS EGMONT at Malta.

During his time in the cruiser HMS EDGAR she was participating in the Gallipoli campaign.

[daveB_UK]

Many thanks - I'm very grateful for that. Its good to know that there's somewhere to come too for that "experienced" answer. What was the reasoning behind changing ship so often?

[horatio2]

Not changing very often - he had quite a stable career in his sea-going ships. He served 3 continuous years in EDGAR and a year in LADYBIRD, only leaving the latter to be demobilised.

[daveB_UK]

:wacko:Thanks again - but what about the last entry - HMS Barham? Doesn't this suggest that he spent time onboard her too?

[horatio2]

Yes indeed, but note that this is during a short period of service after he re-entered the RN (on 26 Aug 1921) having been demobilised 21 months earlier (on 29 Nov 1919). He had only seven months in BARHAM before being discharged again (with a bonus) in mid-1922 when the RN was running down its manning - effectively he was redundant.

[daveB_UK]

Thanks horatio - pictures becoming clear now, thanks to your patience. I can see that following his stint on HMS Ladybird (until 30 Sep 1919) he then has a stint back at the training camp - HMS Victory. Would this be Portsmouth (HMS Victory & barracks)? At that time did the RN still use HMS Victory for training? Would that have been the norm - to go back to the training camp and just for a month? Was this to ascertain if the men were medically fit to go back to civvy street?

I can see then that he goes to "shore" 29 Nov 1919. So was it normal after being demobbed to come back - in Uncle Tom's case, 19 months time?

[horatio2]

VICTORY (barracks) would have been, in his case, the admin base for his discharge in 1919 and for his re-enlistment in 1921. Pre-discharge routines, including medicals, would have been conducted there. The reasons for re-enlisting cannot be read from his record. Family problems? Unemployment? Missed being at sea? Who can tell?

[daveB_UK]

Thomas appears to have been issued with three medals (attached). Since it mentions Victory would this have been sometime between Oct 1919-29 Nov 1919? What's meant with the "S" just below "Victory"?

[horatio2]

His 1914-15 Star was issued to him while he was serving in VICTORY. Then other two medal were issued to him in person (S = Self) almost certainly after discharge.

[daveB_UK]

I've attached the photo of Uncle Tom and his mother - this is what set me off. His cap label is pretty difficult to read but after your explanations and advice it looks sure to be HMS Edgar. I'm very grateful many thanks.

Can you perhaps help me out with this one? His service card appears to have two descriptions for him!!! Was it normal that a 5' 91/2" lad shrank to 5'6" ???? Even his hair and eye colour has changed.

[horatio2]

In reality a 5' 31/2" boy growing upwards (!) to 5' 6"

[daveB_UK]

Ha Ha yes apologies - senior moment. The 5'31/2" is a much better fit since his descendants are broad shouldered, not blessed with being at the front of the queue when the long legs were dished out.

Nevertheless it does seem odd to have two different descriptions - have you come across anything similar?

[horatio2]

The difference is between a boy of 16 and a man of 21 with five years of rugged life in the RN behind him. So his hair has lightened and his eyes have darkened - both subjective assessments. It put 3 inches on his chest as well.

[daveB_UK]

Life aboard ship in those times must have been very rough - we've no idea how lucky we are. I've just come across this photo of the crew aboard HMS Edgar:

Back to my basic training if I may.............what do the numbers in the coloumn "List" signify? Also the next column "No."

I've asked TNA to rescan (they are normally very obliging) but can you make out the greek looking symbol "O" with a line through followed by "vide" in the Remarks column? What do you think this refers to?

I've registered on the Gallipoli Association Forum - I'm curious to find out more. Any suggestions regarding other forums gratefully received.

[horatio2]

The List and Number columns refer to his entries in the Ship's Book (used by pay ledgers, etc). The List entries identify categories of men serving in that ship e.g. permanent crew, supernumeraries lent from other ships, Royal Marines, RNR, etc. The 'tick' symbols refer to other entries on the service record or to other paperwork. The reference to 8/30362 is unknown (and unimportant).

[per ardua per mare per terram]

IIRC there was a mobilisation in 1921 over the Greeco-Turkish hostility.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I've just come across this photo of the crew aboard HMS Edgar...

HMS Edgar was one of the older cruisers in the Royal Navy; here are more photos for you: http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/edgar_class.htm#HMS Edgar

There are some files at Kew that might interest you:

ADM 1/8430/239 HMS EDGAR. Reporting casualties during operations in the Dardanelles 15 Aug 1915.

ADM 137/3531 Damage by torpedo to H.M.S. EDGAR 1918

Her Ship's Logs ADM 53/40558 EDGAR 1915 June 29 - 1916 Aug. 31

ADM 53/40559 EDGAR 1916 Sept. 1 - 1917 Oct. 31

ADM 53/40560 EDGAR 1917 Nov. 1 - 1918 Dec. 31

[daveB_UK]

Thanks Mate - I've the photo's of HMS Edgar but will for sure take a look at the National Archive info.

Dave

HMS Edgar was one of the older cruisers in the Royal Navy; here are more photos for you: http://www.battleshi...r_class.htm#HMS Edgar

There are some files at Kew that might interest you:

ADM 1/8430/239 HMS EDGAR. Reporting casualties during operations in the Dardanelles 15 Aug 1915.

ADM 137/3531 Damage by torpedo to H.M.S. EDGAR 1918

Her Ship's Logs ADM 53/40558 EDGAR 1915 June 29 - 1916 Aug. 31

ADM 53/40559 EDGAR 1916 Sept. 1 - 1917 Oct. 31

ADM 53/40560 EDGAR 1917 Nov. 1 - 1918 Dec. 31