NZ Soldier Died and buried twice!

[NZMR]

Hi,

Here's an interesting NZEF chap, 50062 James Thomas Irwin: Irwin, JT

Whilst researching a NZ Boer War veteran, John Thomas Irwin (or is Thomas John, as records vary) I came across his headstone:

So obviously one must be wrong! I would tend to believe the CWGC is correct, but I just thought it was an interesting point. I'll get hold of the cemetery in Waipukurau and see what their records show.

Cheers

Phil

[teejay65]

Hi Phil, some South African service records for Thomas John Irwin are shown on:-

http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/SimpleSearchResults.do

Regards, Tom

[Esskay]

Interesting Phil - the NZ BMD's have the 1920 death recorded as James Thomas aged 32 and the 1947 as John Thomas aged 72

Fascinated to see if you get to the bottom of it

Cheers

Sue

[NZMR]

It is a strange one. Irwin doesn't appear in the 1948 issue (covering from May 1947) of the Boer War magazine 'The Veteran', nor does he appear in the obituary column of the RSA Review. I would have expected him to, as he probably had RSA affiliations given the headstone. Oh well, I'll push on with inquiries at Waipukurau.

Cheers

Phil

[ZackNZ]

Some details which you may already have.

Surname IRWIN

Given Name James Thomas

Category Nominal Roll Vol. 3

Regimental Number 50062

Rank Trooper

Next of Kin Title Mrs A

Next of Kin Surname IRWIN

Next of Kin Relationship Wife

Next of Kin Address C/- Mrs Holboro 26 Telford Street Woolston Christchurch

Roll 74

Page 4

Occupation Farmer

Source: Nominal Roll

Zack

[ZackNZ]

Some more information on the Auckland Cenotaph website - which also might have:

http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/cenotaph/RecordDetail.aspx?OriginalID=32351&Ordinal=1&c_surname_search=irwin&c_firstname_search=james%20thomas&c_warconflict_search=world%20war%20i,%201914-1918

Zack

[ZackNZ]

Phil

Interesting one this as he doesn't feature in the Roll of Honour list either.

Zack

[ZackNZ]

Phil

Apologies he does appear in the The Great War 1914 – 1918 New Zealand Expeditionary Force Roll of Honour. He is listed in the section titled: "Died after discharge from the NZEF from wounds inflicted or disease contracted while on active service" (page 336). The entry reads:

No: 50062

Rank: Tpr

Name: Irwin, James Thomas

Unit: NZ Machine Gun Squadron

Date of death: 25/1/20

Zack

[ZackNZ]

Phil

346 Private Irwin 2 Cont 3 Coy; Carpenter, Patea, Wanganui; NOK T Irwin (Father), Patea, Wanganui; Joh CC: OFS: SA01; Wairoa Mounted Rifles Provisional Transvaal Constabulary

Source: Rough Riders at War by Richard Stowers page 128

Zack

[ZackNZ]

Phil

This is a mystery - we need to see his Archive's file! Not all the files can be wrong!

Zack

[teejay65]

Interesting Phil - the NZ BMD's have the 1920 death recorded as James Thomas aged 32 and the 1947 as John Thomas aged 72

Fascinated to see if you get to the bottom of it

Cheers

Sue

It would seem that the memorial was for John Thomas, with the wrong service number, because James would have only been 12 years old in 1900; too young to have been in the Boer war.

It is interesting to see that, in one of Thomas John's letters in his service records, he signs himself "JT Irwin" & it may be he used that when he served in WW1.

[(nzef)]

Hi All,

As a side note. To date I have compiled a list of 33 CWGC headstones (all NZEF) with either incorrect or mixed casualty details. In most cases, these are due to the casualty having the same surname. At some point in the information gathering process the details were mixed.

All of these have been reported to the CWGC who will rectify the issue when the stone is next replaced....which could be years.

Also found the following on Papers Past - I suspect you've seen these, but just in case :-)

In SA, 1900

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=HNS19000724.2.15.2&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----2T%2e+J%2e+Irwin--

Another

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TC19000724.2.16&srpos=8&e=-------10--1----2T%2e+J%2e+Irwin--

Cheers

[NZMR]

I spoke to the local council and to NZ Veteran's Affairs. Essentially the headstone is owned by the family, purchased with a large subsidy from the Government because of his military service. This means that the cemetery have no jurisdiction to change the inscription, nor do Veteran's Affairs. There is no doubt the details are wrong - they should just refer to the Boer War service of JT Irwin - the WW1 information being erroneous. Unless the family prompt a change, it doesn't look like it will ever change. Shame, considering how inaccurate it is.