9221 Michael Ward Royal Irish Regiment

[williammc]

micheal ward was my ggf who frist enlisted with the connaught rangers who then change over to RIR his reg number was 9221 can anyone help in find out why this change took place as his son was in the connaught ranghers james ward reg number 4108 both were k i a any info would be a geart help

[ss002d6252]

The medal record card for 9221 shows only that he enlisted in the R.I.R and went to France on 5/9/1915. No other battalion is shown, but SDGW shows :

Name: Michael Ward Birth Place: Miltown, Co. Galway Residence: Athlone, Co. W. Meath Death Date: 29 Oct 1915 Death Location: Gallipoli Enlistment Location: Galway Rank: Private Regiment: Royal Irish Regiment Battalion: 1st Garrison Battalion Number: 9221 Type of Casualty: Died Theatre of War: Balkan Theatre Comments: Formerly 4498, Conn. Rangers

There isn't a medal card I can see for him for the Connaught Rangers - did he serve pre war ?. Otherwise it looks like may have transferred before he went to France on 5sep1915.

There was a Michael Ward , 4478, with the 4th connaught rangers. Enlisted 7oct10 and discharged 11/3/1915. He had the 1914 star so it looks like saw active service.

[David_Underdown]

The fact he was serving with a Garrison Battalion at the time of his death suggests he had been medically downgraded for some reason.

[ss002d6252]

It may be the case that he was discharged with an injury but then later re-enlisted.

Theres info on this earlier thread which - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=145409

[sotonmate]

williammc

He was at some stage 4498 Connaught Rangers,and then 9221 Royal Irish Regiment. He is shown on the Medal Index Card as landing in France on 5 Sept 1915,that card only shows his RIR detail. His entry in Commonwealth War Graves Commission database shows he was with the 1 Garrison battalion when he died in Egypt on 29 Oct 1915.The 1 Garrison Bn is shown on the Long Long Trail (top left of this page)as landing in Mudros and working in Gallipoli during October 1915 and they re-deployed to Egypt in early 1916.He is shown on Soldiers Died in the Great War as DIED as opposed to Died of wounds,or killed in action,so he may have died of sickness. This same database gives him as born Miltown,Co Galway,he also enlisted in Galway,and living in Athlone.

I had a short search on such data as I have collected here,but found no surviving service record,but that is not to say there isn't one as that database is deserving of persistence in the search mode !

I am a bit puzzled by the fact that he is shown as first landing in France in Sept 1915,it is worthy of a peek at his original Medal Roll,which is at Kew Archives under WO329/951 page 2207,to see what Battalion he landed with. I guess it is possible that he dashed though France to Marseilles and boarded a ship for the Balkans,some did.

As you are setting out on your journey of discovery I will see if I can look at the Medal Roll in a few days.

Sotonmate

[mhifle]

Hi,

I do not think it can be 4478 Private Michael Ward 4th Battalion Connaught Rangers since he signed for his 1914 Star on 5 Oct 1922.

For No. 4498 issue dates:

1st & 2nd Battalion 6 March 1893(issued to Thomas Griffin)

3rd Battalion Oct 1914

4th Battalion Sept 1911

5th Battalion 12 June 1915 (issued to Frederick William Doak)

6th Battalion July 1915

Regards Mark

[Verrico2009]

4498

SDGW (as set out earlier above):-

Name: Michael Ward

Birth Place: Miltown, Co. Galway

Residence: Athlone, Co. W. Meath

Death Date: 29 Oct 1915

Death Location: Gallipoli

Enlistment Location: Galway

Rank: Private

Regiment: Royal Irish Regiment

Battalion: 1st Garrison Battalion

Number: 9221

Type of Casualty: Died

Theatre of War: Balkan Theatre

Comments: Formerly 4498, Conn. Rangers

[mhifle]

Hi,

His son James Ward was in the 3rd Battalion so it could be that Michael Ward was also in the 3rd Battalion.

4180 (rather than 4108) Private James Ward enlisted in 3rd Battalion 1 April 1912

He was part of a draft led by 2nd Lieutenant A Montgomery with 114 Other Ranks from the 3rd Battalion who left to join the 2nd Battalion in France. 7 Oct 1914

List as 'Missing' on his Medal Card 11 March 1916

Later listed as killed in action.

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919

Name: James Ward

Birth Place: Tuam, Co. Galway

Residence: Tubbercurry, Co. Galway

Death Date: 11 Mar 1916

Death Location: Mesopotamia

Enlistment Location: Galway

Rank: Private

Regiment: Connaught Rangers

Battalion: 1st Battalion

Number: 4180

Type of Casualty: Killed in action

Theatre of War: Asiatic Theatres

Regards Mark

[kenf48]

While recently trying to find a soldier in the Royal Irish Rifles I noticed a relatively large number of men who were initially recruited into the Connaught Rangers and then transferred to other Irish Regiments. As I was searching on number and Belfast rather than name it played havoc with Ancestry indexing, but there were certainly enough 'hits' for it to register.

Note I've just done a similar search using parameters 'Royal Irish Regiment' and 'Galway' and sure enough the first two records for a Pte Carr and Pte Sweeney were initially recruited to the Connaught Rangers. It leads to the working hypothesis that the Connaught Rangers, as a local regiment did basic training then moved soldiers on into other Irish Regiments. These would then go to the Depot Bn of that Regiment before being posted overseas.

It could simply be the Connaught Rangers were up to strength and the surplus were posted as replacements for those Regiments who had suffered greater loss. [Taking account of the politics etc according to the LLT only two New Army Bns were created and badged as Connaught Rangers, which does seem a small number compared to say the Argylls who had 6/7 Bns (plus the TF Bns and no Irish Regiment had those)].

Not very scientific I know but it may explain why the Connaught Rangers is not on the mic and why so many are shown as originally recruited to the Connaught Rangers.

Ken

[mhifle]

Hi,

Here are transfers I came across from the 3rd Battalion Connaught Rangers to the Royal Irish Regiment

Regards Mark

4 Officers and 171 Other Ranks proceeded from the 3rd Battalion Connaught Rangers to Dublin to join the 1st Garrison Battalion, The Royal Irish Regiment 10 August 1915

70 Other Ranks from 3rd Battalion Connaught Rangers transferred to the Labour Company of the 2nd Garrison Battalion The Royal Irish Regiment 2 Feb 1917

During March 1917 5 Officers and 78 Other Ranks from 3rd Battalion Connaught Rangers left to join the British Expeditionary Force in France and 89 Other Ranks transferred to Garrison Battalions of The Royal Irish Regiment and the Durham Light Infantry.

Up to May 1917 men who were medically unfit for front line service had been sent to serve in an Infantry Labour Company and would at this point have been transferred to the Labour Corps created that month. The Royal Irish Regiment had a Labour Company which was have been made up of men from a range of different regiments who were medically unfit for front line service. They were probably were originally put into 361 Company Labour Corps.

The 361 was a Reserve Company located at Tipperary and they would have been sent on to another company normally within a few weeks.

A draft of 3 Category A4 men from 3rd Battalion Connaught Rangers (A4: boys under nineteen years of age) were sent to the 4th Royal Irish Regiment (Young Soldiers Battalion) based in Queenstown Ireland 19 Oct 1917

[mhifle]

From the Irish Times 19 Nov 1915

Regards Mark

[williammc]

thank you all for your help as i need to try and find out as much of my family history as possabily

in total i think that 7 of my family fell in the geart war

[williammc]

hi all thanks for your help

is it possabily to find what age that these two men were when they inlisted , micheal ward reg number 9221 and james ward reg number 4180

i hope i am not being a nuisance

thanks william

[daggers]

William

Are these the men?

Michael Ward, 9221, Royal Irish Regiment

James Ward 4180, Connaught Rangers?

If so, that will help those who are able to look things up in Ancestry etc.

D

[kenf48]

As for their ages in the absence of service records, it's back to basic genealogy/family history, and Irish genealogy can be a bit difficult but strictly speaking is not Great War

Ken

[kenf48]

williammc

I am a bit puzzled by the fact that he is shown as first landing in France in Sept 1915,it is worthy of a peek at his original Medal Roll,which is at Kew Archives under WO329/951 page 2207,to see what Battalion he landed with. I guess it is possible that he dashed though France to Marseilles and boarded a ship for the Balkans,some did.

As you are setting out on your journey of discovery I will see if I can look at the Medal Roll in a few days.

Sotonmate

Be interesting to see what you come up with it very much looks like a '2' has been overwritten and according to LLT the 1st Garrison Bn embarked on the 6th September 1915 from Devonport seems a bit of a coincidence.

Perhaps he went from the Depot as part of 3rd Bn and when he arrived at the IBD in France was posted to join them, wonder if the troopship stopped at Boulogne on the way! Then again it could just be an error on the mic.

Ken

[mhifle]

Hi,

There is a Michael and James Ward on this 1901 census who could be father and son in Galway

Regards Mark

1901 Census Ireland

Gortatleva (Carnmore, Galway)

Ward Patrick 33 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Galway Tin-Smith Cannot read Irish and English Married -

Ward Martin 28 Male Brother Roman Catholic Co Galway Tin-Smith Cannot read Irish and English Married -

Ward Michael 26 Male Brother Roman Catholic Co Mayo Tin-Smith Cannot read Irish and English Married -

Ward Patrick 18 Male Relative Roman Catholic Co Galway Tin-Smith Cannot read Irish and English Not Married -

Ward John 14 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway Tin-Smith Cannot read Irish and English Not Married -

Ward Dennis 12 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway None Cannot read Irish and English Not Married -

Joyce John 7 Male Relative Roman Catholic Co Galway None Cannot read Irish and English Not Married -

Joyce Martin 5 Male Relative Roman Catholic Co Galway None Cannot read Irish and English Not Married -

Ward James 4 Male Relative Roman Catholic Co Galway None Cannot read Irish and English Not Married -

Ward Patrick 3 Male Relative Roman Catholic Co Galway None Cannot read - Not Married -

Ward Michael 2 Male Relative Roman Catholic

1901 Census

[sotonmate]

williammc/kenf48

Not quite sure how this fits in with all the to-ings and fro-ings here but this was on the original Medal Roll:

M WARD 9221 1 Garrison Bn RIR. Died 29.10.1915.

I have a copy of the Roll. If you want it PM your e-mail.

Sotonmate

[P. J. Clarke]

williammc/kenf48

Not quite sure how this fits in with all the to-ings and fro-ings here but this was on the original Medal Roll:

M WARD 9221 1 Garrison Bn RIR. Died 29.10.1915.

I have a copy of the Roll. If you want it PM your e-mail.

Sotonmate

Extract from William Henry's book, "Galway and the Great War", in which he quoted a letter written to the Galway Express, on the 14/11/1914, by a Pte. Michael Ward, Connaught Rangers, Ballinasloe, in which he stated that he received a gunshot wound to the right eye and was invalided out of the Army. There is no mention of his number, but he said through the letter that he had went out with 1,300 men, plus 800 reinforcements but after some engagements all that left was 270. He mentioned that the Irish Guards and the Leinsters (2nd Battalion) fought side by side at a place called Soupier, alongside the Connaughts. PJC.