Canadian volunteers with the 3rd Belgian Lancers - 1914

[greatspywar]

Hi all

In our collection at the Royal Museum of the Armed Forces and of Military History in Brussels - which all you of you have undoubetly visited, we have a small flag flag (more a pennant actually) of Canadian volunteers with the 3rd Belgian lancers in 1914. A small paper has the following text in English with the badge of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (?): "The flag carried by Brigadier T.V. Sandys-Wunsch, an English Volunteer with The 3rd Lancers, Belgian Army, from October 1914 to January 1915. It was under fire at St Pierre Chapelle Ramscappelle Nieuport, and is now returned to the Country where it saw its War Service."

The 3rd Belgian Lancers were part of the 1ste Belgian Division.

Does anybody has additional information on the bit of curious Great War history?

Thanks already !

Jan

[SteveE]

Jan

I suspect that they're not Canadians but were members of the Legion of Frontiersmen, see this website...http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/firstwar.htm

Can you post an image of the badge in question?

Regards

Steve

[greatspywar]

Hi Steve

Indeed, I have done some additional research to the 3rd Lancers, and in their various local historical publications, they mention that these men were indeed from the "legion of Frontiersmen", or British Colonial Horse. In one of the annexes there was even a two page history on these men. Apparantly the official flag of the unit has "Belgium 1914-1918" as a battle honour. Where is it now? Is there a museum on these men somewhere? A list of names of those who came to Belgium. Has anyone come across one in a roll of honour?

Unfortunatly I do not have a photograph of the document. I will try to get it asap.

I will keep you posted on my progress on this. I find it truly fascinating !

The pennant was donated to the museum in 1936 by Captain (?) Sandys-Wunsch.

Thanks,

Jan

Jan

I suspect that they're not Canadians but were members of the Legion of Frontiersmen, see this website...http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/firstwar.htm

Can you post an image of the badge in question?

Regards

Steve

[SteveE]

Jan

Have you been in contact with Geoff Pocock? He's the official UK historian for the Legion of Frontiersmen (Countess Mountbatten's) and can be contacted through the website I linked to earlier. I'm sure he'll be only too happy to help.

Regards

Steve

[Borden Battery]

Here are two websites on the Frontiersmen. Borden Battery

The Legion of Frontiersmen of the Commonwealth

Formed at the end of 1904 for fellowship and for service to the State at any time of need, the Legion has been the centre of many myths. This website sets the record straight and tells the truth of the extraordinary history of those who served humanity selflessly and often made the greatest sacrifice of all. [CEF Study Group - Dec 2005]

http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/

Legion of Frontiersmen - Wikipedia Website

The Legion of Frontiersmen is a patriotic paramilitary organization formed in Britain in 1905 by Roger Pocock, a former Constable with the North West Mounted Police and Boer War veteran, to bolster the defensive capacity of the British Empire. Prompted by pre-war fears of an impending invasion of Britain, the organization was founded on a romanticized conception of the "frontier" and imperial idealism. [CEF Study Group - Sept 2010]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Frontiersmen

[greatspywar]

Steve

Thank you very much for the link and for your help. I will contact Geoff Pocock today!

All the best

Jan

[greatspywar]

Thanks Borden Bat.

Jan

[David_Underdown]

Don't know about Brigadier, but a Theodore Vincent Sandys-Wunsch was appointed OBE in 1946, and described as Assistant Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Winnipeg, Manitoba http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/37633/supplements/3341. There are a few other gazette hits, largely for a captain in the Royal Scots see http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/exact=Wunsch;sort=oldest/start=11[/url and subsequent pages.

[greatspywar]

Thanks! All info is welcome.

Cu all

jan

[charlesmessenger]

To avoid any confusion a Belgian Brigadier was a corporal of mounted troops.

Charles M

[David_Underdown]

Of course, so teh Brigadier T V Sandys-Wunsch of the caption and the Captain Sandys-Wunsch who donated it are probably one and the same. It owuld appear he served as a volunteer with the Belgians initially, was then commissioned into the Royal Scots, continued serving post-war (he has a P Number in the WO 338 index), and at some point ended up with the RCMP, while still holding a reserve commission. Looks like the Mounties is the place to go to get your man, I'd imagine thet'd be able to tell you something about a former Assistant Commissioner.

[greatspywar]

Hi,

Thanks for the tip. Does the RCMP have an archive?

Cheers !

Jan

[Borden Battery]

There is an archive for the North West Mounted Police, which became the Royal North West Mounted Police and finally the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. However, this data base is limited to personnel records from 1873 to 1904. Perhaps someone else more familiar with the RCMP can provide further details on a possible data base, of course, as the national police force, some of this data may be considered confidential.

Borden Battery

[Al C]

Found these two pieces in the Canada Gazette

The Canada Gazette, Ottawa, Saturday, May 10, 1927 Vol. LVII, No. 45, Page 4172

APPOINTMENTS

Department of The Secretary of State of Canada

His Excellency the Governor General has been pleased to make the following appointment viz:--

29th April, 1924

Theodore Vincent Sandys Wunsch, Esquire, Inspector in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; to be a Justice of the Peace for Canada

Canada Gazette May 16 1925 Vol LVIII No.46 Page 3455

Memoranda

The undermentioned officers of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police are granted honourary rank with seniority in the Canadian Militia, as stated, in accordance with the provisions of K. R. & O., S. M., Para. 217(a) (G.O. 4 1925). --

To be Hon. Capts. .... Insp T.V. S. Wunsch 15 July, 1924

These were the only items that came up using their search page but I would expect that there would be other items related to his RCMP career if you can find them.

I did encounter a bankruptcy notice for a George Wunsch of Regina in 1933 a relative???

[robins2]

Hi,

Thanks for the tip. Does the RCMP have an archive?

Cheers !

Jan

you might want to try here

http://www.rcmpheritagecentre.com/

regards

Bob r.

[Guest Genwren]

In researching my family History I came across more detail on Theodore Sandys-Wunch. (1st cousin x2 removed). Born Theodore Vincent Wunsch (name changed to include mothers maiden name Sandys at start of the First Great War)

Birth 9 Jan 1892 in Knutsford, Cheshire, England Death 25 July 1966 in Duncan, BC, Canada

He was born in Knutsford, Chesire, England and moved to Canada in 1910 at the age of 18. He joined the Joined the RCNWM Police as a trumpeter. When the First Great War broke out he returned to England to enlist in the British Army but was rejected because of being nearly blind in one eye. He then applied to the Belgium Cavalry and became a Third Lancers Volunteer. He fought in the first battle of Ypres and was also wounded at Nieuport. He was Decorated with Yser Cross by King Albert for capturing seven prisoners and saving regimental flag. Whilst recovering in hospital he was approached by the British Army and commissioned as Temporary Captain on 14 April 1914 of the Royal Scots. All of the above information was obtained from the following publication.

Imperial Vancouver Island: Who Was Who, 1850-1950

By J. F. Bosher

[Michael Johnson]

As I recall the Legion of Frontiersmen had hoped to send formed units to the British and Canadian Armies, but were turned down, apart from the 25th Royal Fusiliers.

Michael