Military Medal

[janeb123]

I have read the rules of the great war forum and agree to abide by them.

Please could anyone help with information concerning my husbands grandfather?

Ernest William Clarke-born 1892

Reg no 3/11194 1st Northamptonshire Reg

Reg no 43468 Suffolk Reg

His service records do not appear to exist and his medal roll card shows the award of the Campaign,Victoryand 15 Star medals

although we know he won the Military medal which I have confirmed with the london gazette posting 2-11-1917.

If anyone can help with any information on the action for which he was awarded the MM or any other information I would be very grateful

Many thanks for reading this Jane

[rksimpson]

Hi Jane

Does the Gazette listing mention which regiment?

You could look up the regiment war diary - http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/wardiaries.htm

http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/gallantry.htm

The 1st Northamptonshire Reg is not online

Some Suffolk are - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=scope%3dsuffolk&catid=31&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*

but you need to know which one, his medal roll may have it recorded - http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/medals.htm

hope this helps

regards

Robert

[Stebie9173]

Ernest (or was he "Nobby"? ) was awarded his M.M. as a Corporal with the Suffolk Regiment.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=6351718&queryType=1&resultcount=2

Description Medal card of Clarke, E W

Corps Regiment No Rank

Suffolk Regiment 43468 Corporal

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/23

Dept Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Series War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War

Piece {....snip to avoid confusion.....} and Military Medals

Image contains 1 medal card of many for this collection

The card should give his battalion in the Suffolks with whom he was awarded the M.M. The Eastern Counties battalions used the 4xxxx series of numbers for transfers between Regiments (usually in late 1916).

Ernest's Medal card shows him joining the 1st Northamptons in France (date of entry 29th April 1915) just prior to the battle of Aubers Ridge on 9th May 1915. I don't have my casualty lists from that battle here, but I suspect that he was either wounded there or at Loos (gassed or wounded) and returned to service with the Suffolks in 1916. He could of course have been wounded outside of the two major battles that the 1st Northamptons were involved in, or was evacuated sick.

At that point in the war, those sort of transfers were usually done as a batch with groups of soldiers with similar numbers being transferred at the same time to the same battalion of a Regiment. A look at the Soldiers Died in the Great War (purely for men with similar numbers) strongly suggests he went to the 11th Battalion of the Suffolk Regiment.

He was transferred to Class Z Army Reserve on 13th December 1919 (he would have been demobilised about 28 days earlier). This Reserve was disbanded on 31st March 1920. He was a Sergeant by the end of the war.

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Ernest Clarke's records don't seem to have survived but those of 43460 Charles Brooks of 58 Carlton Street, Kettering have. He joined the Northamptonshire Regiment (No. 20523) in August 1915, went to France in June 1916 and was attached to the 11th Suffolks on 27th July 1916 before being officially transferred (in one of those batches mentioned above) on 1-9-1916, being officially renumbered on that date. There is one slightly odd move on this set of records in June 1916 which may mean the record isn't entirely representative of the whole group, but it certainly looks like Ernest Clarke joined the 11th Suffolks on the Somme in July 1916 and officially transferred to them on 1-9-1916.

Below is a link to Phil Curme's 11th Suffolks site:

http://www.curme.co.uk/102.htm

The following page mentions Ernest's M.M. (in a list, no details. The initial is shown as F. W. but the number is his).

http://www.curme.co.uk/103.htm#Honours

Link to his entry in the London Gazette of 2-11-1917:

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/30364/supplements/11330

(This issue of the Gazette appears to have measles!)

Although we can only estimate a date of award from the Gazette, one of the men on the same page is a man I have recently researched (14375 Ernest Chester of the 6th Northamptons) who was awarded his MM at Ypres on 10th August 1917. So, the other awards are likely to be from a similar timeframe (possibly at Malakoff Farm / Hargicourt on 24th August 1917 when Cpl. Day was awarded his V.C. ?)

Steve.

[daggers]

The Medal Index Cards available via Ancestry are for camapaign medals only and do not include the cards for gallantry medals, which are still held by the National Archives costing £2 via their documents online service.

D

[janeb123]

Thankyou so much for your response to my plea for help.The information you have given has opened up avenues I didn't know were there and I'm sure will prove useful.Your time and trouble are much appreciated. Kind Regards Jane

Hi Jane

Does the Gazette listing mention which regiment?

You could look up the regiment war diary - http://www.1914-1918.../wardiaries.htm

http://www.1914-1918...d/gallantry.htm

The 1st Northamptonshire Reg is not online

Some Suffolk are - http://www.nationala...pe=1=*

but you need to know which one, his medal roll may have it recorded - http://www.1914-1918...ndad/medals.htm

hope this helps

regards

Robert

[janeb123]

Thankyou very much for your reply to my post,the information will take a little while to digest but Im very grateful to be able to move forward with my research and you have certainly been a big help.Kindest Regards Jane

Ernest (or was he "Nobby"? ) was awarded his M.M. as a Corporal with the Suffolk Regiment.

http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=2

Description Medal card of Clarke, E W

Corps Regiment No Rank

Suffolk Regiment 43468 Corporal

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/23

Dept Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Series War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War

Piece {....snip to avoid confusion.....} and Military Medals

Image contains 1 medal card of many for this collection

The card should give his battalion in the Suffolks with whom he was awarded the M.M. The Eastern Counties battalions used the 4xxxx series of numbers for transfers between Regiments (usually in late 1916).

Ernest's Medal card shows him joining the 1st Northamptons in France (date of entry 29th April 1915) just prior to the battle of Aubers Ridge on 9th May 1915. I don't have my casualty lists from that battle here, but I suspect that he was either wounded there or at Loos (gassed or wounded) and returned to service with the Suffolks in 1916. He could of course have been wounded outside of the two major battles that the 1st Northamptons were involved in, or was evacuated sick.

At that point in the war, those sort of transfers were usually done as a batch with groups of soldiers with similar numbers being transferred at the same time to the same battalion of a Regiment. A look at the Soldiers Died in the Great War (purely for men with similar numbers) strongly suggests he went to the 11th Battalion of the Suffolk Regiment.

He was transferred to Class Z Army Reserve on 13th December 1919 (he would have been demobilised about 28 days earlier). This Reserve was disbanded on 31st March 1920. He was a Sergeant by the end of the war.

Steve.

Thankyou very much for your reply to my post,the information will take a little while to digest but Im very grateful to be able to move forward with my research and you have certainly been a big help.Kindest Regards Jane

Ernest (or was he "Nobby"? ) was awarded his M.M. as a Corporal with the Suffolk Regiment.

http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=2

Description Medal card of Clarke, E W

Corps Regiment No Rank

Suffolk Regiment 43468 Corporal

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/23

Dept Records created or inherited by the War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies

Series War Office: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War

Piece {....snip to avoid confusion.....} and Military Medals

Image contains 1 medal card of many for this collection

The card should give his battalion in the Suffolks with whom he was awarded the M.M. The Eastern Counties battalions used the 4xxxx series of numbers for transfers between Regiments (usually in late 1916).

Ernest's Medal card shows him joining the 1st Northamptons in France (date of entry 29th April 1915) just prior to the battle of Aubers Ridge on 9th May 1915. I don't have my casualty lists from that battle here, but I suspect that he was either wounded there or at Loos (gassed or wounded) and returned to service with the Suffolks in 1916. He could of course have been wounded outside of the two major battles that the 1st Northamptons were involved in, or was evacuated sick.

At that point in the war, those sort of transfers were usually done as a batch with groups of soldiers with similar numbers being transferred at the same time to the same battalion of a Regiment. A look at the Soldiers Died in the Great War (purely for men with similar numbers) strongly suggests he went to the 11th Battalion of the Suffolk Regiment.

He was transferred to Class Z Army Reserve on 13th December 1919 (he would have been demobilised about 28 days earlier). This Reserve was disbanded on 31st March 1920. He was a Sergeant by the end of the war.

Steve.

[janeb123]

Many thanks for the extremely useful information.I really appreciate your help Again many thanks Kind Regards Jane

The Medal Index Cards available via Ancestry are for camapaign medals only and do not include the cards for gallantry medals, which are still held by the National Archives costing £2 via their documents online service.

D

[SFayers]

Hi Jane,

Ernest gets a mention in the 11th Suffolk War Diary on 27th September 1917 - on this day he was awarded his gallantry medal, together with other officers and men, by the Corps Commander for honours "gained on August 26th" 1917.

All the best

Steve

Edit: I see by your number of posts you should be able to send Private Messages; if you PM me your email address I'll put together the relevant war diary pages for you (including an Appendix detailing the action at Malakoff Fram on the 26th August).

[Stebie9173]

Apologies, the date of the action at Malakoff Farm was indeed the 26th. It's been a while since I went through great-uncle Percy's war!

I've had a check of the casualty lists I've got and I can't see him mentioned. That could mean one of three things.

1) I've not found him (yet).

2) He was evacuated ill rather than wounded.

3) He was not ill or wounded but transferred for a different reason (though this option is rather rare).

Steve.