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133.R

British spade

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SiegeGunner

Pete's point about the folding shovel is true...I have one myself and it has gotten me out of many a tight spot.

I have one too - and have tried to photograph it in an interesting and non-threatening pose ... Shovel.jpg

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willy

FTROOPMAR0600035.jpg

One seeing the first light for 90 years

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tocemma

How about this spayed then. I'm re-assured to note that O'meara informed the pet. Mind you I expect little Tiddles had guessed.....

troubling animal surgery type image deleted by popular request... (well one person actually!) before the mods turn on in the morning.

I like to think of collecting spades as an antidote to my rock and roll lifestyle (no really) after all, Alice Cooper plays golf. And I hear the boys from Kiss do quilting in their spare time.

Tocemma

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ph0ebus

How about this spayed then. I'm re-assured to note that O'meara informed the pet. Mind you I expect little Tiddles had guessed.....

troubling animal surgery type image deleted by popular request... (well one person actually!) before the mods turn on in the morning.

I like to think of collecting spades as an antidote to my rock and roll lifestyle (no really) after all, Alice Cooper plays golf. And I hear the boys from Kiss do quilting in their spare time.

Tocemma

That would make you....

....wait for it....

The Ace of Spades.

G'night!

-Daniel

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Chris Henschke

Modern NATO parlance refers to a "spade shovel" the two now being combined (just like the gun howitzer) http://www.ukge.co.u...hFor=&PT_ID=100

Centurion post No. 23

I commend this excellent website for anyone interested in modern internet shopping. The childrens section on books relating to collecting fossils may inspire some looking for that certain Christmas gift for toddlers.

I doubt if it is a reliable reference for current NATO terminology. It cites no STANAG.

From a sapper's viewpoint, (in 1914 or 2010) the major difference between spades and shovels is the shape of the blade - as shown in post No. 11.

Spades have a relatively flat face and flat mouth and are used for cutting turf, digging post holes, etc.

The exception (and I hope this won't promote a flurry of anecdotes) is the 'Shovel, Square Mouth' which is ideal for shovelling out the floor of a trench, carrying soil from a flat surface, concrete mixing, sand, etc.

Andrew's image of the shovel he has in his possession (post No. 31) is a 'Shovel, R.E.'

Chris Henschke

I wait with amused anticipation to a link for homehardware, etc.

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AlanCurragh

Please folks, lets stay (reasonably) on topic. Remember that the original poster wouldn't be able to follow this thread if it was moved to Skindles (the area for off topic discussions, for those that don't know)

Thanks

Alan

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133.R

I will do some photos today of the German spades. Also from a folding spade. Which there was real.

Best regards

Sven

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Ron Clifton

Hello all

It's all a matter of definition. The one I use is this:

Look at the end furthest from the handle. If the edge is straight, it's a spade. If it is triangular, curved, or anything in between, it's a shovel, like the one in the photo in the original post.

The pamphlet illustration confirms my interpretation.

Ron

PS I like "spovel" though, and if you shine a light on it, you might be able to see a "shade" behind it.

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FROGSMILE

No statement can go unchallenged on the GWF! That's a new one on me so I'd love to see a source for that definition, Andrew. A spade has a flat end, so far as I'm concerned! This is from the 1905 Manual of Military Engineering

post-1722-016517900 1290453912.jpg

The nomenclature of the pointed type is still, to this day, 'Shovel GS'. I have used them, cleaned them and stored them (lightly oiled!) for more years than I care to remember. The top edge is turned over so that it can be pushed into the ground with a foot (ideally booted). It was issued side by side with Picks GS and for decades one or other (sometimes both) were fitted and secured by straps and buckles to British Army Land Rovers. It is my understanding both from usage and observation in various military museums that the Shovel GS has changed very little, except for the metal strap/socket arrangement from the pattern in use during WW1.

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SiegeGunner

I examined more than one of them at the IWM the other day. Objectively, it is a digging shovel - a heart-shaped spade with a scalloped blade, designed to enable its user to both cut and excavate earth in a none-too-precise fashion, hence its 'GS' designation. It is the direct precursor of the general-purpose 'entrenching tool' - a one-man digging machine. Subjectively, its proper name is whatever it was called in the official nomenclature of the time.

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Pete1052

Perhaps Mick should be the one to write the authoritative history of British military digging implements through the ages -- in fact, perhaps the book could be an expanded version of a Ph.D dissertation prepared at the same institution of higher learning where a Pal of ours is writing the definitive history of small arms tracer ammunition production, 1914-18. I'm sure many of the images in the digging implement book would contain the grateful acknowledgement, "Photo courtesy of Andrew Upton" in the caption.

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SiegeGunner

I am once again reminded of the wise words of Denis Healey - when you're in a hole, stop digging ...

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FROGSMILE

I examined more than one of them at the IWM the other day. Objectively, it is a digging shovel - a heart-shaped spade with a scalloped blade, designed to enable its user to both cut and excavate earth in a none-too-precise fashion, hence its 'GS' designation. It is the direct precursor of the general-purpose 'entrenching tool' - a one-man digging machine. Subjectively, its proper name is whatever it was called in the official nomenclature of the time.

That was my whole point, the "nomenclature" is unchanged. Look at "Ser 3" of the WW1 contemporary images in post #11.

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Wardog

I have noticed that one in the IWM walk through trench is a 1940's marked example.

Here are pictures of ones I have picked up at carboots and street markets. Regards, Paul.

post-14843-067545900 1292172299.jpg

post-14843-063379600 1292172386.jpg

post-14843-059459000 1292172452.jpg

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Great War Truck

This is a bit of a long one so I will spread it over several posts. Photographs show that mounted on the side of a motor lorry should be a pick axe and a shovel or spade. We found a drawing which shows how the bracket was made which Steve faithfully reproduced. I am a little dubious as to whether the spade will stay in place and wonder if the roads of Flanders and the Somme were littered with dropped off tools. A few Months ago I was very fortunate in picking up a super example which Steve promptly mounted on the side of the Dennis.   

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Great War Truck

I have been on the look out for a spade for quite a while and was very fortunate in finding one last weekend. It is WD marked but I have not yet cleaned it up to look for a date. It came from Ypres so I am happy it is period. I have been on the look out for shovels for a while. The one in red primer had a faint date of 1917 on it but after cleaning and painting I cant see it anymore. I have photographed it next to a modern military surplus one and although very similar in shape it does have some differences. I presume that this is the engineers shovel? I also picked up a complete GS shovel which is WD marked but I cant see the date on it. It has the appearance of being well worn down. To add to the collection I have also picked up another GS shovel head only which is marked “Park &” with the date 1916. My question is, which is the correct size shovel to go on the side of the lorry next to the pick axe?

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a6.JPG

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Great War Truck

Final question is, on the side of our Peerless recovery truck should be three pick axes and spades. I picked up three more pick axes, two of which are clearly WW1 period dated, the third is not visible. Looking at the photo of the Peerless, the pick axes don’t seem to have the metal ferrule which supports the wooden shaft where the head sits on it. So, is there a different type of pick axe that I have not yet found?

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a8.JPG

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GRANVILLE

Not sure about the ferrule query and not wishing to detract, but what are the things that look like coils of wire(?) hanging off the wagon side?


David 

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Great War Truck

Not 100% certain, but I think ground anchors. The Peerless carried dismountable shear legs which might be used to hold those in place, or possible to stop the Peerless rolling backwards when winching out a stuck vehicle. Unless anybody else has any thoughts on the subject?

 

Thanks

 

Tim 

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