Deads of Swedish Navy

[TD60new]

Hello dear WW1 Forum members

When visiting a church in Stokhom I noticed this remembering stone about 1914 1918 deads of this Navy.

I had not supposed before about war deads of this country. It creates some curiosity

However, I cannot translate the words of this stone. I do not undestand most of the swedish words.

were they member of swedish military navy ? other forces ?

Where there on boats sunk by torpedoes or mines ?

Can you give me some input about this ? with translation or other input.

Thanks

[centurion]

Sweden had nearly 900 mariners killed in a variety of ways see http://www.mareud.com/WW_Losses/ww1/shiplist_wwI.htm

[TD60new]

Sweden had nearly 900 mariners killed in a variety of ways see http://www.mareud.co...hiplist_wwI.htm

Oups ! Impressive !

However I am not sure this corresponds :

- the dates do not fit ? exemple 30/09/1914 or 1/2/1915 seems not in the list ...

- I cannot locate corresponding ship names on the stone .

It seems another reason ... which one ?

[LarsA]

I will give you a translation, but in short the men commemorated on the marker were all officers or ratings of the Royal Swedish Navy. Most of the incidents are in minesweeping/mineseeking, and at least one friendly fire accident.

"On duty for their country, upholding neutrality, sheltering shipping and keeping the sealanes open for trade during the world war 1914-18 these men from the Navy laid their lives in the service"

´

I'll just translate the beginning of the incidents, and will not bother with the rank and names if you have no specific questions:

Drowned when piloting a lane through mines at position

Died when blowing a mine at Stockholmsskär

Died of injuries by friendly fire on submarine Hvalen

Died blowing a mine at Nåtarö

Died seeking for mines with TB Castor

Died blowing a mine off Västervik

Died in the mining of SS Gunhild

Which church is it in, I have not seen it before. With my national service in the Swedish Navy ( a bit later than this though) I am always interested.

ATB,

Lars

[TD60new]

I will give you a translation, but in short the men commemorated on the marker were all officers or ratings of the Royal Swedish Navy. Most of the incidents are in minesweeping/mineseeking, and at least one friendly fire accident.

"On duty for their country, upholding neutrality, sheltering shipping and keeping the sealanes open for trade during the world war 1914-18 these men from the Navy laid their lives in the service"

´

I'll just translate the beginning of the incidents, and will not bother with the rank and names if you have no specific questions:

Drowned when piloting a lane through mines at position

Died when blowing a mine at Stockholmsskär

Died of injuries by friendly fire on submarine Hvalen

Died blowing a mine at Nåtarö

Died seeking for mines with TB Castor

Died blowing a mine off Västervik

Died in the mining of SS Gunhild

Which church is it in, I have not seen it before. With my national service in the Swedish Navy ( a bit later than this though) I am always interested.

ATB,

Lars

Many thanks Lars.

I see now in which circumstances those men died: more or less when clearing marine minefields.

Terrible circumstances indead !

Their sacrifice cannot be forgotten also.

This is a panel in Skeppsholmen churdh ! Not far from af Chapman and the interesting exhibition about the chinese terracotta army.

(I have just discovered Stokholm for the first time. It was with great pleasure, really intersting)

There is a similar panel for WWII on the opposite wall.

Thanks again

TD60

[TD60new]

By the way

I have tried to find some details about this:

Died in the mining of SS Gunhild

but I found nothing.

It is not in the list of boats given on the website above.

Any comment ?

[sotonmate]

TD60new

The mines float anywhere and must be removed ! I have read statistics showing known shipping losses from 1914-18 mines up to 1924. There were of course unknown losses from mines also,the ship disappears and we have no evident reason. The Swedish Navy were,I guess,only clearing their own shipping lanes.

Sotonmate

[centurion]

By the way

I have tried to find some details about this:

Died in the mining of SS Gunhild

but I found nothing.

It is not in the list of boats given on the website above.

Any comment ?

Possibly some confusion - the Swedish Navy had a second class gun boat called Gunhild, her sister ships were Afhild, Aslög, Astrid and Sigrid. She was wooden and masted (3.5 kts under sail) with a steam engine. Already over 50 years old in 1914 the last of the class was not decommissioned until 1920. Displacement 2846 tons Armament 1x12.2cm M/73, 2x12mm MGs (who made 12mm Mgs?). I can find no record of one being mined.

SS Gunhild was a German built Danish merchantman (dispacement 996 tons) part of the Torn Castle Line (a Danish subsiduary of Union Castle which was torpedoed in July 1918 by U100 Sank with the loss of 6 lives.

[MichaelBully]

Can I just say that I really appreciate this thread ? I have an interest in The Netherlands and the Great War, which has sort of broadened out to look at how the War impacted on other neutral countries.

Certainly agree that we should remember the casualties from neutral countries who were also killed or wounded. Had often wondered how Sweden 's shipping fared in the Great War with the Blockade, with U boat activity, and mines.

[melliget]

I have tried to find some details about this:

Died in the mining of SS Gunhild

but I found nothing.

Could it have been Runhild? 1170 tons, mined 3.11.1916.

From "List of neutral ships sunk by the Germans (8 Aug 1914 - 26 Apr 1917)":

http://recordsearch....645339&I=1&SE=1

From uboat.net:

http://www.uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/7667.html

Or perhaps Gunhild was mined after Apr 1917.

regards,

Martin

[centurion]

I got the torpedoing of the SS Grunhild a year off - it was July 1917. Mistype

I think there are two choices

1] the elderly Swedish navy gunboat Grunhild hit a mine at some stage (may not have sunk) and this is the incident on the memorial - in which case the SS is in error - or

2] the man in question, although of Swedish nationality was serving as a Merchant Officer on the Danish merchant ship SS Grunhild when U100 torpedoed her - in which case mined is in error it should be torpedoed.

[LarsA]

I will try to check with our naval museum in Karlskrona, but I would think it highly unlikely for a memorial at Skeppsholmen, which is our naval centre from way back, to get a date wrong. With the number of casualties it is probable that it is a near total loss. Have tried the internet possibilities, but no show.

ATB,

Lars

[TD60new]

With a limitation to picture size at 100 K0, it is difficult to have a good quality picture here a zoom on part of the stone:

Here about GUNHISDS:

Maybe the full sentence can help to understand what happen :

Omkomna vidangfartyget Gunhilds minsprangning vid Herthas flak den 24 september 1918

(followed by 17 names)

A translation trial gives

Fatalities (of) 'vidang' ship Gunhild mines blasting at Hertha Flatbed September 24, 1918

Here some words about the Hertha Flatbed

http://www.mightyseas.co.uk/marhist/workington_harrington/grassendale.htm

It seems in the Danish waters

+ the top

TD60

[centurion]

Given the date and number of casualties this means that we can rule out the SS Gunhild. The number of fatalities would suggest that the Swedish gunboat Gunhild hit a mine or mines in Sept 1918. It would seem very unlikely that there would be two Swedish naval ships with the same name in service at the same time.

[centurion]

Have now found a brief contemporay news paper report of the sinking of the Swedish Navy Gun Boat Gunhild by mine in the Skagerrak area with loss of 19 lives.

I also find from an earlier source that the displacement I quoted earlier was very wrong - she was under 200 tons. The boat was famous for a scientific exploration of the sea bed of the deeper Skagerrak during 1877 -1880 when a number of new marine species were identified - some incorporating the ships name in their Latin name. Her maximum speed under steam was 9 knots. She was probably 3 masted and carried a single large gun on her centre line mounted on a slide that could be swivelled to point to either beam. One gunboat of this class served as the Swedish version of HMS President for a while. In British naval parlance she would not be classed as a ship, having only one deck above the waterline but as a boat, she was very much what British 19th Century politicians meant when they said "send a gun boat".

[centurion]

A report from a Danish newspaper quoted in the NYT claims that the mine was German and that another Swedish gunboat may have hit a mine a few days earlier also with heavy casualties.

[LarsA]

It's correct, it is HMS Gunhild, the first minesweeper in the Swedish Navy, built 1862 as a twomaster and with a steamengine. The wording is strange though, the words "ångfartyget Gunhilds" means literally "the steamship Gunhild". The other naval ships on the monument are mentioned by their function: "Submarine Hvalen", "Torpedoboat Castor". Gunhild was 185 grt, 8 knots max speed, 30 metres long. Crew: 31.

During WWI the Swedish Navy swept about 3000 mines, and lost 30 men during the war years.

ATB,

Lars

[centurion]

It's correct, it is HMS Gunhild, the first minesweeper in the Swedish Navy, built 1862 as a twomaster and with a steamengine. The wording is strange though, the words "ångfartyget Gunhilds" means literally "the steamship Gunhild". The other naval ships on the monument are mentioned by their function: "Submarine Hvalen", "Torpedoboat Castor". Gunhild was 185 grt, 8 knots max speed, 30 metres long. Crew: 31.

During WWI the Swedish Navy swept about 3000 mines, and lost 30 men during the war years.

ATB,

Lars

Possibly because your post is the only place I've seen where she is referred to as a minesweeper- everywhere else she is called a Gunboat. The earliest reference (in English anyway) is in 1880 where she is listed as a Gunboat with others in the same class (and given a build date of 1859). Accounts of the scientific expedition to investigate the Skagerrak bottom also refer to her as a Gunboat. I've now found 4 reports of her sinking - all refer to Gunboat. I've also seen some postings on another forum arguing about what is the correct Swedish for Gunboat, possibly the cause for the way in which she is referred to on the monument.

When did she become a minesweeper? Whilst the inventor of the first industrially produced sea mine was Swedish (and the Nobel family fortune was founded on selling them to Russia in the 1850s as torpedoes) I suspect that Gunhild was not built as one. She was obviously fitted with a winch, as the scientific expedition involved trawler style dredging, which would be useful in minesweeping. Is it possible that Sweden's first minesweeper is a retrospective attribution? And at the time she was the first Swedish vessel to be employed in minesweeping (the winch would be useful) but was still called a Gunboat? In the same way as there were many British trawlers involved in minesweeping but classed as trawlers.

If, as the reports I have seen show, Gunhild alone had 19 dead then I suspect that 30 dead may be on the low side.

PS I have seen so many reports of war memorials with mistakes on them (including listing men who were there to see the memorial unveiled!) I would usually want some official record for verification

[centurion]

Further to my last post - a modern Swedish web site still refers to Gunhild as "Kanonbåt" which to my monoglotist Anglo Saxon looks awfully like Gun Boat, but was the term people were arguing about (mainly in Swedish). Possibly at the time the memorial was made Kanonbåt was not a recognised word?

[LarsA]

Centurion,

You are quite right in kanonbåt being gun boat. And that was how she was classified at the time. Just now I have not my naval books handy for giving you the exact date, but she was built as a gunboat along with the others in her class. Some changes meant she got fewer guns, but a bigger one. That was one reason I was thrown by the referral to a steamship, the gunboat and minesweeper role is what is mentioned in my books and on the net.

/Lars

[TD60new]

Found this

Dr. Arvid Filip Trybom, (24 Dec. - Fifvelstad, Östergötland) 1850-1913 (13 Feb. - Stockholm), Swedish zoologist, initially entomologist in Uppsala (Fil Lic. in 1882, Dr. h.c. in 1907) and as such taking part of expeditions to northern Russia. During 1878 he participated in the Skagerrak, Kattegatt and Öresund expedition with the cannon boat "Gunhild" together with Théel (q.v.). After this he became interested in fisheries and eventually he became a fisheries research commissioner. The freshwater copepod Diaptomus trybomi Lilljeborg, 1889 is named for him as well as the fish Spring spawning vendace, Coregonus trybomi Svärdson, 1979. From : http://www.tmbl.gu.se/libdb/taxon/personetymol/petymol.tu.html

[TD60new]

and this:

Name -- Type ---------------- Built Start End ---- Note

Alfhild - 2nd class gunboat 1863 1863 1905 Alfhild class

Gunhild 2nd class gunboat 1863 1863 1899 Alfhild class

from

http://oceania.pbwor...wedish-Gunboats

I understood this as Gunhid retired from service in 1899.

Does it mean this boat was re incorporated in the swedish navy later in WW1 or Gunhild above refers to another ship ?

TD60

[centurion]

Centurion,

You are quite right in kanonbåt being gun boat. And that was how she was classified at the time. Just now I have not my naval books handy for giving you the exact date, but she was built as a gunboat along with the others in her class. Some changes meant she got fewer guns, but a bigger one. That was one reason I was thrown by the referral to a steamship, the gunboat and minesweeper role is what is mentioned in my books and on the net.

/Lars

All the 2nd class gun boats had one gun, she certainly only had one gun in 1880 as did all the others in her class

[LarsA]

According to "Svenska Flottans Historia" (History of the Swedish Navy) and "Örlogsfartyg - svenska maskindrivna fartyg under tretungad flagg" "Naval ships - swedish enginepowered ships under the naval ensign, Gunhild was built as a "ångkanonslup", steamcannonsloop to make a literal translation. At that time she had two 72p "bombkanoner", bombcannons (I guess some kind of mortar). She got new armament in 1876, a 12,2 cm (4'1")single muzzleloader. She was reclassified "kanonångskonert", roughly cannonsteamschooner. They were also known as "2 klass kanonbåtar", 2nd class gunboats. In 1898 she was rebuilt as a "handminefartyg", which in effect was the first swedish minesweeper although not a formal classification. She was the only one of the "2 kl kanonbåt" that served in a minesweeping capacity during WWI. Her Captain and 16 others perished in the mining, and the number of total casualties (except for "natural" reasons like diseases or accidents), is fairly sure to be around the 30 on the monuments; statistics has been a national pastime for quite a while, a somewhat maddening experience when you want copies of a service file for an officer and you are told that the extent of the file is about 2 metres of documents in the book-shelf...

ATB,

Lars

[vb136]

The incident on 21 July 1915, involving the Swedish submarine Hvalen, was not a friendly fire incident, but a case of mistaken identity. Hvalen and the depot-ship Blenda left Ystad (well-known to the British TV-audience thanks to Kenneth Branagh) harbour in the morning of 21 July 1915, on a westbound course. The depot-ship was delayed, and the submarine proceeded the depot-ship with a distance of 1, 6 kilometers. Around 7.30 am an German armed trawler sighted the submarine, and, mistaking the Swedish submarine for a British one, opened fire, severly wounding one of the Swedish crewmen, before the German crew was made aware of their mistake. The wounded crewman died in Ystad hospital the same day.