John J Cox

[Jonathan_NW]

Hi all

Trying to track down the few remaining men named on the local memorial. One is John J Cox listed as being from The Royal Warwickshire Regiment. Now having checked SDGW and the CWGC I think he is one of the following two men. I dont have access to all the records which may help find his link to Wigan but I'm hoping someone has an idea...

The first man is as follows:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=745798

and the second...

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=466879

Any idea, suggestions or answers would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Jonathan

[Alan Tucker]

17714 who died 11.4.17 has no parents or wife listed on CWGC but a brother at Nechells Park Road, Bham. He is listed on the St Bartholomew's Edgbaston, Bham, war memorial. Also SDGW gives his residence as Edgbaston

2120 who died 6.8.18 has parents named 'of Bham' but no residence in SDGW.

Not strong proof but seems more likely that 2120 is your man

[josquin]

Jonathan,

Sjt. J. Cox, died 6 August 1918, is James - Cox, born Birmingham in 1890, registered at Birmingham in 4th Quarter 1890, the son of Edwin G. Cox (parallels CWGC stating his parents were Edwin & Laura Cox; this is the only James Cox in the BMD as a Birmingham birth from 1886-1890. Since the memorial says "John J. Cox"

the other man is the more likely of the two: John - Cox, born at Birmingham in 1889; registered at Birmingham in 3rd Quarter 1889. He would have been 27 years

of age on11 April 1917, per the CWGC listing, since he would not turn 28 until near the 3rd quarter of the year. The memorial may have erred by listing

"John J. Cox"; as the BMD lists only John - Cox, 1 birth in Birmingham each year for 1888, 1889 & 1890--no listings for a "John J. Cox." Middle initial

notwithstanding, John Cox, born 3 Q 1889, may be the right man if the memorial staff have the correct forename. Good luck with the Wigan connection!

Regards

Trelawney

[Jonathan_NW]

Thanks for that Trelawney and Alan. Certainly makes things a lot murkier!

For reasons that may seem odd I am leaning more to Alan's suggestion. Although the fine evidence from Trelawney would point to 17714 the fact is both the Aspull and Wigan memorials both have him as J.J Cox and John J Cox respectively. SDGW also has 2210 as being John Cox and not James even though that was the name he was christened with. 2210 as Alan stated has no residence listed in SDGW whilst 17714 is both named as a resident of Birmingham and named on the memorial local to his residence. Could it be that James Cox used his christened name as a middle name hence John J. Cox?

I'm off to the Wigan archives later this afternoon. Hopefully I will be able to discover more.

Thanks again to you both. Much appreciated.

Jonathan

[josquin]

Jonathan,

Something that may make things yet murkier. Since the "John J. Cox" inscription indicates a second forename, perhaps the memorial staff transcribed

the initial incorrectly. CWGC lists "John Austin Cox," M/270673, Pte., Army Service Corps, 403rd Motor Transport Company, died 13 February 1919,

born Handsworth, Birmingham and interred at the Handsworth Cemetery. John Austin Cox is in the 1901 Census with his birthplace listed as

Birmingham. Another byway to explore, at any rate--not a great distance from "John J. to "John A."

Regards

Trelawney

[Jonathan_NW]

Hi Trelawney

Well I visited the archives yesterday and at least I have found that it was neither of the two possibilities I offered! I trawled the local newspaper and found the following article. I knew about Joesph Cox but had no firm idea they were brothers.

The article from the Wigan Observer of 23 September 1916 was as follows:

Two sons of Mr and Mrs Cox of 19, Cale lane, Aspull have made the ultimate sacrifice. Signaller Jos. Cox of the Lancashire Fusiliers has recently been killed in action. The deceased, 20 and single lived with his parents at the address given. He enlisted in January 1915 previous to which he was a fireman at Wigan Coal and Iron Company's loco shed. His brother Private J.J Cox of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment died of wounds last September (1915) He was 31 years old and a loco driver for Wigan Coal and Iron Company.

I've rechecked the CWGC database and SDGW and there is nothing at all. So I'm at a dead end again. I have checked the medal cards and it is not immediately obvious which John Cox is my man.

Jonathan

[Alan Tucker]

Research can be so frustrating at times

[Jonathan_NW]

Indeed. Hence the appeal for help!

There is a MIC for 2120 John Cox that is very interesting, the dates fit and it does say dec'd which I would take as meaning deceased as in died as opposed to Killed in Action?

Any thoughts?

Jonathan

[CGM]

...........The article from the Wigan Observer of 23 September 1916 was as follows:

Two sons of Mr and Mrs Cox of 19, Cale lane, Aspull have made the ultimate sacrifice. Signaller Jos. Cox of the Lancashire Fusiliers has recently been killed in action. The deceased, 20 and single lived with his parents at the address given. He enlisted in January 1915 previous to which he was a fireman at Wigan Coal and Iron Company's loco shed. His brother Private J.J Cox of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment died of wounds last September (1915) He was 31 years old and a loco driver for Wigan Coal and Iron Company.

Jonathan

In 1911, at 19 Cale Lane New Springs Near Wigan, Benjamin Pallett, the head of the family, (married for 4 years) lived with his wife Martha and his children Thomas (20) and William (15) Pallett.

Also living with him were five stepdaughters (ages from 20 down to 11) and a stepson Joseph, aged 14. All with the surname COX.

If this is the Jseph in the article presumably the newspaper didn't realise that the lad's mother had remarried.

Not sure if this gets you anywhere at all! but now I'll see if I can find the whereabouts of the older brother who was 31 in 1915 and therefore 27~ in 1911.

[Jonathan_NW]

In 1911, at 19 Cale Lane New Springs Near Wigan, Benjamin Pallett, the head of the family, (married for 4 years) lived with his wife Martha and his children Thomas (20) and William (15) Pallett.

Also living with him were five stepdaughters (ages from 20 down to 11) and a stepson Joseph, aged 14. All with the surname COX.

If this is the Jseph in the article presumably the newspaper didn't realise that the lad's mother had remarried.

Not sure if this gets you anywhere at all! but now I'll see if I can find the whereabouts of the older brother who was 31 in 1915 and therefore 27~ in 1911.

Thanks for that CGM. Any information at all is gladly received and goes into the database i'm building. It is useful as i always look to find any descendants who may still be in the area.

Jonathan

[CGM]

How about:

Cox, John Jas

Single Age 25 (1886)

Stoker Railway

Born Lans Aspull

A boarder at 244 Belle Green Lane Ince Wigan

??

[Jonathan_NW]

How about:

Cox, John Jas

Single Age 25 (1886)

Stoker Railway

Born Lans Aspull

A boarder at 244 Belle Green Lane Ince Wigan

??

And an address right next to where the Ironworks was. Sounds good to me. Thank you.

[CGM]

Just one thing - ignore the 1886 in the previous post - it was on the transcript but not the original!

Also the original says

Stoker railway colliery worker

[josquin]

Jonathan,

The man in the newspaper may be: John James Cox, birth registered 1st Quarter 1885, at Wigan--so he could have been born late in 1884 or in early 1885.

He may be the man listed in Lancs in the 1891 & 1901 Census, but I don't have access to Ancestry.com so I cannot check whether this family

includes both brothers. Wigan was probably the birth registration office for nearby locales like Aspull so this may be the man listed on the two

memorials. A remaining complication: I cannot find him listed on CWGC.

Trelawney

[CGM]

I can confirm that the Cox / Pallett family includes a Joseph and a John James.

[CGM]

Just to look at every possibility - how about this:

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919

Name: John James Pallett

Birth Place: Aspull, Wigan, Lancs

Death Date: 29 Sep 1915

Death Location: France & Flanders

Enlistment Location: Leigh, Lancs

Rank: Private

Regiment: Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Number: 10411

Type of Casualty: Died of wounds

Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

From CWGC:

Name: PALLETT

Initials: J J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Date of Death: 29/09/1915

Service No: 10411

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: XVI. E. 5.

Cemetery: LOOS BRITISH CEMETERY

I can't find him in the 1901 and 1911 census.

Many soldiers did enlist under "other" surnames. Was this J J Cox enlisting under his stepfather's surname??

CGM

[Jonathan_NW]

Brillliant.

That is most certainly him CGM! The age, date of deatth, regiment, place of birth fit perfectly.

I'd like to thank you for a quite superb piece of research. I think it's a case study for those in a similar position. Check the census returns, especially for 1911 and then SDGW and the CWGC using the Stepfather's name.

Thanks to everyone for their contributions to a very satisfying search.

Jonathan

[Alan Tucker]

On September 25 the 2/Warwicks attacked the Quarries on the first day of Loos. 164 were killed. Arthur Vickers won the VC. After initial success they retired to the German support line 400 yards west of the Quarries at 4 a.m. on the 26th. On that day the 2/Warwicks moved along the same trench further to the right in order to connect up with 21st Brigade. The Quarries had since been retaken in a German counter-attack. Major-General Sir Thompson Capper (7th Divn) died of wounds when personally involved in a fresh attempt to take the Quarries on September 27. The Warwicks were not relieved until 9 p.m. on September 29 when they marched to billets at Sailly-la-Bourse. Thirteen more men had been killed since the first day disaster.

[Jonathan_NW]

Thanks Alan thats great.

That was going to be next question which I was in the middle of writing!!

Jonathan

[The Inspector]

Hi All

Benjamin Pallett married Martha Cox, 3rd qtr 1907 at Wigan. (8c,230)

Regards Barry