Dead Mans Gully - Suvla

[Guest]

Dear All - a QODY photographer seems to have captured an almost identical image to the very first photo posted by Krithia on this thread. Note the distinctive trees on the horizon, and the position of the man in the near ground. The same area photographed from a slightly different position I think. This one is captioned "Dead Infantrymen and Yeomen lie amidst the scrub on Scimitar Hill" ...I think it unlikely it is Scimitar Hill. MG

http://www.keepmilitarymuseum.org/gallipoli/gallery.php?&id=103009&page=2&columns=3&rows=3&sid=&CatID=128

[muzza]

Well, what an interesting thread about a "ghost" building. To add grist to the mill, with my trained artist's eye the "building" is but an illusion and it stands out to me from the more recent photo of the same ridge line. The "building" is but a gap in the trees with rising land on the ridge line, appearing to be a blockhouse but IMHO, is in fact partially cleared or farmed earth. I can see the supposed building but it is not really there.

I appreciate that the orginal campaign photo was taken from a lower angle and possibly closer than the recent photo and no doubt trees have grown or moved in this time. Even if the location is from a different angle I have marked a remarkably similar aspect which may be fooling out eyes into believing we are seeing a blockhouse.

[Gully Ravine]

I agree with muzza - I have several photos of that area which exhibit similar 'shapes'.

Regards

Keith

[Guest]

I note Thales made this observation early on in the thread. I have attached a B&W version of my original photo to show how it would appear now. MG

[Gully Ravine]

Another view that I believe confirms we are in the right area ... Krithia's b/w image from post #13 overlaid with a section of a (semi-transparent) photo taken last year (moved down slightly to show the skyline) ... Keith

[SMG65]

I have been loaned a photo album by my mother in law's friend.

It belonged to her cousin, Herbert Sydney Green who served with the Middlesex Hussars (1st County of London)

It has about 200 photos in it and each one has written in pen under it details of the photo and the names of soldiers in the photos.

The photos are of England, Gallipoli, Le Havre, Suez, Geneffe, Bela, Damascus, etc.

There are some photos in it that I have seen before, Chocolate Hill, Dead Mans Gully.

However there are a lot of individual soldiers, (Troopers Andrews, O'Shea, Summerfield, Taylor, Burdett, Faulkes, Owen, Cpls Twinkentine & Luker, to name a few)

I'm a Western Front man and don't know much about this unit or its actions, so could anybody give me a timeline of their postings/actions please.

I am going to try and track her cousins war and write it up for her (at no charge).

Sean

[Guest]

I have been loaned a photo album by my mother in law's friend.

It belonged to her cousin, Herbert Sydney Green who served with the Middlesex Hussars (1st County of London)

It has about 200 photos in it and each one has written in pen under it details of the photo and the names of soldiers in the photos.

The photos are of England, Gallipoli, Le Havre, Suez, Geneffe, Bela, Damascus, etc.

There are some photos in it that I have seen before, Chocolate Hill, Dead Mans Gully.

However there are a lot of individual soldiers, (Troopers Andrews, O'Shea, Summerfield, Taylor, Burdett, Faulkes, Owen, Cpls Twinkentine & Luker, to name a few)

I'm a Western Front man and don't know much about this unit or its actions, so could anybody give me a timeline of their postings/actions please.

I am going to try and track her cousins war and write it up for her (at no charge).

Sean

Dear Sean. I have a fair deal of info on the Middlesex Hussars for the period from the outbreak of the War up to and including Gallipoli. The main sources are;

1. "Historical Records of the Middlesex Hussars 1797- 1927" by Charles Stonham and Benson Freeman which covers WWI of course.

2. "Yarn of a Yeoman" by SF Hatton who served in WWI

3. "In the Sideshows" by Capt Wedgwood Benn (later Lord Stansgate) acting Adj at Gallipoli

4. War Diary cover the regiment's service in WWI in detail. Available online from the National Archives for only £3.50

5. Trooper Bulwinkle Middlesex Hussars Diary 11th Apr - 9th Sep 1915 (National Army Museum)

6. SSM Dixon's Album - Liddle Collection - I suspect some of the photos will be the same as Dixon's photos appear in a few places with multiple archives claiming copyright.

I have copies of 1-5 as well as the 1914-15 Star Hussars Medal Roll from the National Archive (all Regular and Yeomanry (TF) Hussar Regiments were bundled into one massive alphabetical medal roll - 660 pages). I photographed every page so if you need to check names against the medal roll and compare to the MICs it can sometimes be useful to resolve anomalies in name spellings/MIC transcription errors. The MICs were compiled from these rolls, so in theory the rolls should have fewer errors.

Edit: The following men appear on the roll

1. 463 Pte Ernest H Luker 1 C of L Y Disembarked (3) on 28.4.15... KIA 27.10.17

2. 3169 Pte John M Owen 1 C of L Y Disembarked (3) on 28.4.15 ... AR"Z" 3.3.19

3. 3226 L/Cpl Reginald Faulkes 1 C of L Y Disembarked (3) on 29.4.15 commissioned into the MGC

By the standards of the Yeomanry who served at Gallipoli there is more information on this unit than any other so you are in luck. The period in Egypt and Palestine is equally well served.

I have PM'd you with more details. Regards MG

[Guest Reginald1]

This is my first post on this fascinating thread, quiet now for more than 3 years. There are a couple of points on which I think I may be able to provide some help.

First, I have obtained from the Liddle Collection the diary of 3374 Tpr C R Saunders. Included in the diary are 2 hand-drawn trench diagrams which show that the position of No 1 Section of C Squadron of the Middlesex Hussars was at the junction of Munster Lane and Dorset Sap. I need to check copyright before uploading the diagrams, but I thought it might add to the weight of evidence which supports the theory that SSM E H Dixon was the photographer, it being very likely that he was in the vicinity.

Secondly, I have a complete nominal roll of the Middlesex Hussars dated 28th September 1914, and recognise some of the names in SMG65's post. For example, I can identify 2727 Tpr H S Green, 2869 Tpr H Sommerfield, 3226 Tpr R Faulks, 3304 S/Smith E A Turkentine, 3050 Tpr E H Luker. I'm not sure what use that is, but I'm very happy to check names on request.

Finally, I should say that I will be taking a party of more recent Middlesex Yeomen to Suvla Bay later this year, without any prior recce (just lots of pre-reading), and therefore I feel sure I will be leaning on the expertise of those who posted on this and similar threads over the next few weeks.

Many thanks in advance.

[Guidegallipoli]

On 07.11.2010 at 22:38, Krithia said:

Ok, this is one area that I am not 100% sure of its location ... can anyone help me locate Dead Mans Gully? I beleive it is somewhere between Green Hill and Scimitar Hill, can anyone throw any more light onto this?

Thanks, Krithia

Hi Krithia

 

The gully is named after Derbyshire Yeomanries attack on Hill 112 from Hetman Chair on 22nd August. As it is mentioned above , you should look at Stephen Chambers, Suvla August Offensive,  21-22 Augus operations.

 

By the way this is exact location of Dead Men's Gully (40.288696,26.283801)

 

Seyhan

[Guest]

Krithia is Stephen Chambers.

[Guidegallipoli]

Then Stephen should ignore his book recommendation.

 

Seyhan

[Guest]

Regarding 'Dead Man's Gully' - i wanted to add an account by Sergeant Thomas Arthur Squire of the 1st City of London Yeomanry. This is an extract from a letter he wrote to his parents in December 18th 1915. (Thomas Squire was my Gt Gt Uncle and we have quite a few of his army possessions,letter etc)

 

[ We went into the first line again on September 25th. The trenches were very wet and bad.
On two or three occasions i formed part of a squad of 12 men who went as a Patrol. 
It was a rotten job. We had to sleep in a trench so narrow that there was not room to lie on my back.
Added to this , the ground was wet and we had to walk on one another each time the sentry was changed, which happened once every hour.
Where our post was there was a small building about the size of our stables and the stench from it was horrible. There were two dead men in it and a few lying
around it. It was here that i found some wild mint and slept with it on my nose to neutralise the other smell a bit. From these trenches we went to another part of
the first line called "Dead Man’s Gully”. We stayed here for a week. We were all very much done up and weak hanging on by the skin of our teeth. I think my troop consisted
of four men only out of forty six, and we didn’t care what happened to us. I will try and give you an idea of what the place was like. The Gully itself was a small dried up watercourse
about one foot deep and three or four yards wide bordered by a few trees and bushes. It ran from that hut which i have just described towards the Turks line and was the most awful place imaginable.
It was full of dead who had been lying there for about six weeks. As far as could be gathered these dead men were in the big advance and had taken refuge in the gully when the Turks discovered them and turned a machine gun on them. Our trench sapped through this gully at right angles so that we had dead all around us. It was weird to see them day after day in the same attitude but it was a nasty thought to think that we might at any time be lying with them. ]
 

[Wiggy72]

2 hours ago, alantwo said:

Hi Hilary

Just to add, there is an excellent thread on the Forum for Dead Man's Gully which can be found through the link below.

If of interest, this is the link to to the Gallipoli Association website Home - The Gallipoli Association (gallipoli-association.org)

Kind regards

Alan

Thank you very much Alan.

Best wishes

Hilary