bts1970 Posted 29 October , 2010 Share Posted 29 October , 2010 Hi Is anyone able to help point me in the direction of a map showing the locations mentioned below that the 5th moved through & occupied around the 10th August 1915. (I have the details for the Purton lads killed this day,just need to find a map to help plot the movements) BUNCE, Private Arthur Robert. Enlisted: Devizes, before 12/02/1915, the North Wilts Herald printed a list of enlisted Purton men on this date. Occupation: Formerly employed by the GWR Company in Swindon as a machinist in the locomotive and carriage department. Address / Next Of Kin, family details: Purton. Son of John Robert and Mary Ann Bunce, of Pavenhill, Purton. MIC details / Medal entitlement. 9942 5th (Service) Battalion, Wiltshire Regiment. British War Medal, Victory Medal, 15 Star. 30/06/1915 Arrived in Balkans (Gallipoli). (Detail from MIC).This date is recorded as the day that the 5th Battalion sailed from Avonmouth onboard Franconia. Extracts from: Battalion War Diary. 30/06/1915 Battalion sailed from Avonmouth onboard Franconia, 30 Officers and 970 other ranks. 01/07/1915 Malta. 09/07/1915 Alexandria. 15/07/1915 Mudros. 16/07/1915 Companies sailed for Cape Helles, landing at “V” beach, Gallipoli. 30/08/1015 Departed the Cape for Mudros. 04/08/1915 Arrived Anzac. Tuesday August 10th 1915. (Battalion War Diary entry). (01.00): Battalion moves away in single file less D company and part of B Company. Order of march C - Machine guns - A - B companies "Move by a steep and winding course to a cup-shaped deformation at the head of the Gulley to the right and some distance in front of our salient." (Words of 2 Lieut R.W.M. Dewhurst one of the few officers on the march who subsequently survived.) The Battalion was guided, as far as I am able to ascertain by a New Zealand Officer. Here they arrived two hours before sunrise (0300) and the men were told to dig into dugouts and make themselves comfortable as the position was quite safe. Men therefore removed equipment and rifles. This position I take it to be just N. of the H in Chunuk Bair and the march to it from the Aghyl Dere must have been via the APEX (Ref. Gallipoli Map 1.20,000 Koya Dere) (0430) As soon as it was light machine guns opened on the men lying in their dug outs. About 1/4 of an hour later there was a rush of Turks from both sides of the depression which drove the men, unarmed and unequipped down the gulley (SALZLI BEIT). The bottom of the gulley commanded by machine guns and so escape was cut off. Three courses were possible:- 1. To rush past the machine guns down the Sazli Beit, this was tried but in nearly all cases proved fatal. 2. To climb the northern slope of the ravine under fire and try to escape over the top. This was done in a few cases with success. 3. Hide in Gulley till night; this also was done with more success. (A party of 5 men was rescued from the Gulley having been there 16 days from August 10th to August 26th. They reported numbers of men, who were wounded, unable to get away and died of exhaustion and starvation.). Parties arrived on the Beach in fours, fives, and some carried bodies during the 11th, 12th and 13th unarmed, unequipped and demoralised. 2nd record (0100): After the Battalion had marched off (A. C and part of . D company under Major Hern relieved the Gurkhas with the Royal Irish Rifles in reserve. The position was attacked at dawn on Tuesday (10th) morning and through the retirement of the Regiments on right and left. D company is left 'in the air'. Major Hern and Lieut J.E.R Firmin killed but remainder hold on until surrounded and are forced to retire into Gully. Here reorganised and sent up to a counter attack - unsuccessfully and with large loss. Lieut Gamman killed - several wanton attacks attempted with handfuls of men. At night men retire from Gully, some taking refuge with 38th Brigade. 143 of his Regimental colleagues including 7 Officers are recorded as dying this date including 2 other Purton Villagers ERNEST HERBERT KIBBLEWHITE and SIDNEY ROWLAND SMITH. Death / Burial / Memorial details. Killed in action aged 21 on the 10th August 1915 on the Gallipoli peninsula. Arthur has no known grave. Remembered on HELLES MEMORIAL Panel 156 to 158. (Gallipoli peninsula, Turkey). The Memorial at Helles bears more than 21,000 names. Evidence for inclusion on the Purton Parish list: Purton War Memorial (Recorded as A.BUNCE), Memorial Board in St Mary’s Church, name listed in the Memorial book in St Mary’s Church, SDGW listing. Best regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Pickerd Posted 31 October , 2010 Share Posted 31 October , 2010 Bob, The only reference work that I can suggest, that gives some detail of the advance and fate of the 5th Wiltshire Regiment on the 9th - 10th August, is the OFFICIAL HISTORY of AUSTRALIA in the WAR of 1914-1918 - Volume 2. Volume II - The Story of Anzac from 4 May, 1915, to the evacuation of the Gallipoli Peninsula (11th edition, 1941). Chapter XXV - Chanuk Bair - the Climax in Gallipoli (continued), pages 687 to 717. This work can be accessed from the Australian War Memorial web-site (AWM0 under "Official Histories", in PDF files as free downloads. The link to chapter XXV is - http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/3/chapters/25.pdf Hopefully that will work, but if not just log on to the AWM web-site and follow the links to the Official Histories. To answer your question as to "the direction of a map showing the locations mentioned", pages 708 to 714 will give you that information, although, the photographs are poorly copied and the maps not in the original coloured format, but I'm sure someone will be able to post more detailed maps of CHUNUK BAIR. I would recommend that you read the two chapters on the attack upon Chunuk Bair. The footnote by C. E. W. Bean on page 714 gives a more detailed account of the fate of remnants of the 5th, and the mention of the 8th Light Horse Regiment party on Camel's Hump, 27th August can be added to slightly from personal accounts of the 8th LHR. 9-8-1915 (Monday) – Lt Merv Higgins with 25 men were sent out to occupy a small peak at the foot of Sazli Dere known as Camel’s Hump, during the early hours of the morning. This post was on the Anzac side Sazli Dere, inland from No. 1 Post. 2nd Lt Wilson: “Met Lieut Higgins & party and took them up onto Camels Hump and Destroyer Point. 2nd Lt Beath, with a similar number of men as the Lt Higgins’s party, were sent out to man a new outpost at Destroyer Hill. This post was on a small hill the other side of Sazli Dere, out from Old No. 3 Post. His party caught a large party of Turks in a dead end gully and killed 29 of them with close range rifle fire. 2nd Lt Ernie Mack was second in charge of this party and has left a brief description of the episode: “On Aug. 9th I was second in charge of a party that had to go out and hold a new outpost position. This proved to be a nerve-racking job and we had to stop there two days and we lost five men, but we got into a party of Turks and when they left we could count 29 bodies they had left behind. (this may well also be a reference to firing on the 5th Wiltsire's) When I got back to Walker’s Ridge on Aug 11th I learnt that I had been promoted to Lieutenant but was not in a fit state to appreciate the fact as I was all out.” Tpr Ross diary: “One of a party told off to picket of the stores for 24 hours, it was quite a spell. What was left of us, half went out the Destroyer Hill outpost to watch for snipers, killed 40. Three more of us wounded out there, 3 on Walker’s Ridge.” 11-8-1915 (Wednesday) - 2nd Lt George Wilson: “Went up Rhodendrum (sic) spur with Gen. Russell. Found two Turks, brought them in prisoners. Took relief guard out to Camels hump late last night.” 2nd Lt Beath’s party returned to Walker’s Ridge from outpost duty early in the morning. Tpr Ross diary: “Held in reserve. Party came back from Snipers Ridge. A spell to Friday.” 27-8-1915 (Friday) - Lt Merv Higgins with a party of men manned the post at Camel’s Hump, during the day they saw a party of Turks in no ordered formation coming down Sazli Dere. The troopers opened fire on them and the Turks turned and ran back. Lt Higgins, looking through his field glasses observed that the men had no arms and he ordered his troops to cease-fire. It would appear that these men were actually the survivors of the 5th Wiltshire Regiment, who had been driven off Chunuk Bair when the Turks counter attacked on the 10th August. The Wiltshire’s had holed up in Sazli Dere for a fortnight before attempting to retire back down the valley to the Australian lines. They were eventually wiped out by the Turks, with only seven men surviving and being rescued by the New Zealanders. The men of the 8th LH party had no inkling that the party of Turks they opened fire on were in fact the remnants of the 5th Wiltsire's, and would have probably held that opinion until the end of the war. Trust this will be of some help with your enquiries. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bts1970 Posted 31 October , 2010 Author Share Posted 31 October , 2010 Jeff Many thanks for your time in posting the details, most gratefull. It seems such a terrible day for the 5th, i have read some extracts for NZ forces who held the ridge beforehand. They were penned just after the war and the way i read them they make out that the NZ forces held out whatever was thrown upon them but "the day after handing over the summit, the new Battalion folded and ran down the gulley". I am sure that they didn`t just fold and run, but faced with the situation that the 5th found themselves in i am not surprised that they quikly were on the back foot. What the survivers went through for the days and in some cases weeks after is hard to imadgine. Best regards, many thanks again for your time Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted 1 November , 2010 Share Posted 1 November , 2010 Bob, I went to visit the site of the 5th's massacre about 10 years ago. Here's a photo of the area in which they were at the time of the attack. This is looking down Sazli Dere with Chunuk Bair behind me and rhododendron ridge with the 'Apex' on the right. The ground in front right of me is a D Cup hollow as described in the War diary. You can clearly see how the Wilts were channelled down the gully due to the steep sides (again mentoned in the War diary). In fact you can see how all the options of escape fit in when looking at this photo (1. To rush past the machine guns down the Sazli Beit, this was tried but in nearly all cases proved fatal. 2. To climb the northern slope of the ravine under fire and try to escape over the top. This was done in a few cases with success.3. Hide in Gulley till night; this also was done with more success. (A party of 5 men was rescued from the Gulley having been there 16 days from August 10th to August 26th. They reported numbers of men, who were wounded, unable to get away and died of exhaustion and starvation.). All the best, Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bts1970 Posted 2 November , 2010 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2010 Lee many thanks for the picture, its a place i would really like to visit in the future. Indeed of all the locations that i have researched concerning village lads this is one that would top the list. Sacred ground to so many men who`s first venture into the great adventure of the Great War was to end in terror, death & suffering. Remembering all those Wilts lads who died here especially Purton lads who left this earth on the 10th August 1915. 9942 Private ARTHUR ROBERT BUNCE, killed in action. 7252 Serjeant ERNEST HERBERT KIBBLEWHITE, killed in action. 18065 Private SIDNEY ROWLAND SMITH, missing in action. Best regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCoat Posted 3 November , 2010 Share Posted 3 November , 2010 My Great Great Uncle served with 5th Wilts on Gallipoli being Killed on the 23rd July 1915 so didnt find his fate at the massacre. He was 17 years old. His picture is used as my avatar with the poppies. Regards, Donnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekspiers Posted 7 November , 2011 Share Posted 7 November , 2011 Hello My great uncle Frederick Parfitt of 5th Btn Wiltshire Regiment also died Aug 10th 1915 in Gallipoli campaign. Assume he died during the action described in this thread? He has no known grave and appears on the Halles memorial His brother Henry was to die 11 months later on the Somme July 7th - Beaumont Hamel, serving with 1st Btn Wilts - also no known grave- he appears on Thiepval memorial. Their family lived in Lyneham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bts1970 Posted 7 November , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2011 Derek Again use the Wardrobe search to get extra details & i will contact you with my extra details that i have regarding this black day in the Regiments history. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekspiers Posted 9 November , 2011 Share Posted 9 November , 2011 Two weeks ago I discovered that my great uncle died in the battle of Chunuk Bair. I knew little or nothing about this battle at that time. Since then I have tried to read as much as I can about the tragic events surrounding that battle and many thanks to forum members for steering me towards various accounts, However, i find myself struggling with the geography of the locations on the hills. In the Official Australian Army account the Apex the Pinnacle and Battleship Hill are described and shown on the small maps as all lying on Rhododendron Ridge which rises between Sazli and Chailek gulleys. The modern photo earlier in this thread posted by Ski I suggest is not correct. The path running along the ridge to the Apex in the distance is Rhododendron Ridge itself with the Sazli gulley on its left (southern) side. However, careful study of google earth only serves to confuse more! From the old maps orientation it appears that the modern tarmac road on google earth which runs north east up to the Chunuk Bair memorial area could be built upon Rhododendron Ridge! In which case what is the dirt track ridge in Ski's photo. - or has the tarmac road been built since Ski took the photo 10 yrs ago?? What we need is a decent modern topographical map of the area to study - I can't locate one online - anyone? PS The WD describes the 5th's escape down the gully being hampered by machine gun fire. I would suggest that this fire was actually from the New Zealand MGs on the Apex which was directed at the Turks but in the confusion they found it difficult to distinguish between friend and foe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plummed Goose Posted 11 November , 2011 Share Posted 11 November , 2011 Dear Derek, Indeed Ski -when taking that picture is standing on the lower-southern slopes of chunuk bair which if you go a bit further south becomes battleship hill. The ridge in front is rhodonendron with Pinacle/apex. The tarmac road is behind the photographer and the dirt track is a fire break still the same today. don't get discouraged : the Anzac Sector is very confusing (initially) for all !! eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Posted 2 February , 2012 Share Posted 2 February , 2012 Dear Derek, You are correct, it was a typo on my part and so I have edited the post accordingly. I meant to write Battleship Hill is to my left. Eric's also correct in that the road was behind me I walked down to this spot. This was the last photo in my film (before digital cameras) as I would have loved to taken alot more of the area. Best Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbob1001 Posted 2 August , 2012 Share Posted 2 August , 2012 AN interesting thread - one of the 32 men from Wedmore, Somerset who died in the Great War also fell on 10th August with the 5th Wiltshires - Lance Corporal Colin Champeney. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 5 August , 2012 Share Posted 5 August , 2012 Here's a photo of part of the Sazli Beit dere. This was taken from the Battleship Hill side. The dere is so huge it's hard to get a good 'all in one' photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn Posted 5 August , 2012 Share Posted 5 August , 2012 Rhododendron Ridge from Sazli Beit dere. Chunuk Bair to right, sea away to left. There is a firebreak road that runs along the top of Rhododendron Ridge, but this does not connect to Chunuk Bair itself. I was a passenger in a car along the road visible here, but actually don't remember now where it began or ended. The tarmac road up to Chunuk Bair is a different one altogether and has been tarmac since at least 1995, which was my first visit. This photo was taken in 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bts1970 Posted 6 August , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 August , 2012 Bryn many thanks for posting the photos, its so often hard / impossible to imagine the complete picture of what happens during War, like so many images & scenes you review when researching you find yourself looking hard at what is in front of you wonder what it was like back then. This is a place towards the top of my list of places to visit in the future. Bets regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greenmarsh Posted 29 April , 2015 Share Posted 29 April , 2015 Hi, I am new to this site but thought you would like to see the following extract from the diary of my father-in-law:- “The diary of 11650 Pte C F Harris, 15 Platoon D Company (later of 5 Platoon B Company), 5th Wiltshire Regiment. Left England 1 July 1915. Arrived Malta 8 July. Left Malta 9 July. Arrived Alexandria 11 July. Left Alexandria 13 July. Arrived Lemnos 15 July Left Lemnos 16 July Arrived Peninsula 17 July In the trenches 19 July Out of trenches 28 July Left Peninsula 30 July Arrived Lemnos 31 July Left Lemnos 3 August At Gala Tepe 4 August In Reserve on the 7th - 9th. Early on the 10th about 5 am the Turks attacked in force and we had to retire after hanging on as long as possible (previously I had taken a message to HQ 10 Div.) Major Hern was one of the first to go under. He was a good fighter and the best man in our Regt. After straggling about we got together about 170 on the afternoon of the 11th including those who joined the detail from Lemnos at HQ. In the evening a party of us were told to pick up paper and tins, while we were doing this F Earl in 16 platoon was hit in the chest and died in 10 secs. A little later we lost another from C Coy. At night we had to go stretcher bearing; went about 4 miles along a gully and then there was no one there so our journey was in vain. On the 12th (my 21st birthday) we had breakfast and had been cleaning up the lines and were laying down about 11 am when a machine gun must have opened fire on us (the bullets were too quick and accurate for rifle fire) and we jumped up and ran for shelter under a hill. Before I got there one had me just above the knee. They took me straight up to the dressing station; by 4 pm they had me safe on HMHS Valdivia where everything possible was done for my comfort. “ He was shot on his 21st birthday. He spent time in UK convalescing and then was sent to Mesopotamia where he was severely wounded and eventually discharged medically unfit. Pat Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bts1970 Posted 29 April , 2015 Author Share Posted 29 April , 2015 Hi Pat Thanks for sharing the diary entry. From his service number he would have enlisted close to the 11th / 12th September 1914. To survive Gallipoli & then go through Mespot, tough times, was he from Wiltshire? Best regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCoat Posted 14 May , 2015 Share Posted 14 May , 2015 Pat, may I trouble you for your father in laws entry in his diary for the period of 19th - 25th July? My great uncle, serving with C Coy was killed on the 23rd and any detail (specific to him or not) help to price together his story. Regards, Donnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 19 January , 2018 Share Posted 19 January , 2018 Hi I am looking for any info on pt James Hacker who commenced on 30 June 1915 and was a member of 5th Battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 November , 2018 Share Posted 10 November , 2018 Hi. I'm looking for any info on Pte Gilbert Walter Bick (including photos) who was with 5th Wiltshire and died on 10.08.15. Found the info in previous posts very informative and moving. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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