MBrockway Posted 29 September , 2018 Share Posted 29 September , 2018 Another addition to our list of TF units with rifles traditions that used blackened rifles buttons in SD ... 1st (Rifle) Battalion, Monmouthshire Regiment Their antecedents were (going backwards in chronology) 1st (Rifle) Battalion, Monmouthshire Regiment (TF) (1908) 2nd Volunteer battalion of the South Wales Borderers (1885, with affiliation without change of title in 1881) 1st Monmouthshire Rifle Volunteer Corps (1880) - HQ at Newport, Coys A-F consolidated from the various original 1859-60 Monmouthshire RVCs, G Coy newly raised See this excellent photo from Frogsmile posted elsewhere on the Forum, rifles buttons, curved TF shoulder title and Imperial Service badge ... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 16 February , 2019 Share Posted 16 February , 2019 On 29/09/2014 at 16:49, MBrockway said: It can sometimes be difficult to differentiate blackened Rifles buttons from the dark brown compressed leather buttons used more generally from mid-war onwards to save brass. Obviously rifles buttons save brass anyway, so these leather buttons are rarely seen in rifles regiments and the various rifle TF battalions. These came in two styles - the 'football' and a version with the GS arms stamped on it. [picture courtesy of Pal ] [picture courtesy of Geoff Caulton] The rifles buttons usually have a hint of the hunting horn shape visible with the light often catching the bell of the horn and seem flatter. The leather button is slightly larger and seems to have a thicker, more rounded edge. The 'football' versions are often much smoother than might be expected (as in the left hand example above) ... Blackened Rifles buttons Leather buttons Here are couple examples of Army Service Corps (ASC) groups showing the leather buttons alongside the brass General Service button ... [left: 193 Coy of the Army Service Corps Motor Transport Section on guard in Bristol picture courtesy of Paul Townsend - see Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/5151158305/][right: picture courtesy of thardy1 - see Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/14684508@N02/15063239826/] Were it not for the ASC cap badge and the comparison with neighbours wearing brass GS buttons, the unwary might easily mis-identify these men as wearing blackened rifles buttons! Pal Toby Brayley has given me permission to post a photograph which is very instructive in differentiating rifle buttons from the leather 'football' economy General Service buttons described above. The full photograph is a 1919 group photograph of the Military Police Record Office, but it includes five riflemen from the London Rifle Brigade (5/London Regt), presumably attached for some specific skill. Most of those cap badged to the MMP/MFP have standard brass GS buttons, but one corporal with the leather 'football' buttons is serendipitously standing immediately in front of one of the LRB riflemen giving us an excellent side-by-side comparison of the two buttons. A great aid to photo interpretation! First a close-up of the two sets of buttons, MP with the leather economy 'football' buttons in front, the LRB rifleman with rifle buttons behind him ... Next a wider view, but unfortunately missing the LRB chap's cap badge ... ... Finally, extracts to show the LRB cap badge better and to show the LRB shoulder flash visible on another man ... Toby's full Military Police photograph is here Many thanks to Toby for permission to include here Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poona guard Posted 21 August , 2023 Share Posted 21 August , 2023 On 10/09/2018 at 14:59, MBrockway said: In another topic Pal Drew-1918 has just posted these excellent examples of the blackened rifles style regimental buttons of the 9th (County of London) Battalion, London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles) Flat button ... Ball button: Seen on a QVR black patrol style jacket with a label dated 1935. Full details here These examples were part of a mixed lot of Rifle Volunteer buttons sold at DNW earlier this year. The lot was described as all pre-1881, so outside our period and the buttons were not explicitly described as QVR nor 1st Middlesex RVC, but the QVR's St George and Dragon design is very well shown: © Dix Noonan Webb - Lot 750, 09-10 May 2018 Marvellous clear pictures of these rare rifles buttons. Mark The first three are post 1901 aas they have a king's crown and were worn in WW1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 21 August , 2023 Share Posted 21 August , 2023 You're clearly correct, poona guard, and highlights some sloppy cataloguing by the auction house, though it was a large mixed lot from which these QVR buttons were only a small selection! The images from Pal Drew-1918's photos of the 1935 dated QVR tunic appear to have disappeared from my 2018 post on this, so I have repaired them in the original post on Page 1 of this thread. For convenience, I'll post them again now. Flat button: Ball button: Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 21 August , 2023 Share Posted 21 August , 2023 I've also had to reinstate the link to the button lot on the Noonan's website following their change of company name (and thus their URL) ... Noonan's - Lot 750, 09-10 May 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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