Fireman Jesse White, Mercantile Marine

[Andy Wade]

As a result of the Harry Lund thread it has come to light that Jesse White, who was badly injured by the propellors of the rescuing American Destroyer Parker and then died on board the ship, was later landed at Pembroke Dock, in Milford Haven. We know he was landed because of the report of nine men, one was a body and Harry Lund died the next day in hospital. The body landed was that of Jesse White, but he is only recorded on Tower Hill Memorial, so what happened to his body? Fortunately his next of kin and home address is recorded with CWGC so it will at least give a starting point. I haven't been able to find anything on Ancestry or FreeBMD, but then I'm only partly au fait with their system and search engines.

Here's Jesse's CWGC record:

WHITE, JESSE

Initials: J

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Fireman

Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine

Unit Text: H.M.H.S. "Glenart Castle" (Southampton)

Age: 28

Date of Death: 26/02/1918

Additional information: Son of Francis and Jessie White; husband of Helena Mary White (nee Penny), of 4, Chapel Rd., St. Mary's, Southampton. Born at Southampton.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

[Bardess]

Perhaps a PM to Chris Harley, gravefinder extraordinaire, is the way to go Andy as Jesse doesn't strictly come under the 'Non-Comm' title

[Andy Wade]

Perhaps a PM to Chris Harley, gravefinder extraordinaire, is the way to go Andy as Jesse doesn't strictly come under the 'Non-Comm' title

Will do, Cheers. It would be good to find where his final resting place really is and have it recognised.

[Bardess]

Indeed

[chrisharley9]

All I can say is that I will try. After the Asturias saga Southampton City Council pulled the plug on free grave searches, but I may have a back up plan.

Chris

[Andy Wade]

All I can say is that I will try. After the Asturias saga Southampton City Council pulled the plug on free grave searches, but I may have a back up plan.

Chris

Thank you Chris (and Diane). After all that the Harry Lund thread has delivered, it would be a real cherry on the top if we could solve the question of Jesse White's final resting place too.

I'm wondering if there would be a graveyard on chapel street where his wife lived, but I guess that would be too much to hope for.

[David_Underdown]

His medal card http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=8395487 gives teh same address and next of kin details as CWGC. As he was already dead and the medals were claimed by his widow, no discharge certificate number is given for him.

I notice there's also a Jessie White, born Soutahmpton 1863 among the Mercantile Marine cards, but tehre's no address info on that card.

[MelPack]

There has been a bit of a glitch in the recording of the CWGC additional information.

The father was Jesse White b. 24 Aug 1863 Southampton and the mother was Frances Martha Emily nee Young born about 1867 Newtown, Hants - marriage 7 Sep 1885. Jesse's birth is Mar qtr 1890 Southampton and marriage Dec qtr 1914 Southampton with two children Lionel C Mar 1916 Southampton and Joyce H Sep 1917 Southampton.

There is a family tree on Ancestry that records the date of death as 26 Feb 1918 with burial in Pembroke, Wales but the gender is female and the name is Jessie (!)

Mel

[chrisharley9]

Mel

thanks for the tip with regard to Pembroke; that is where I shall start

Chris

[Andy Wade]

I just checked all the CWGC cemeteries in Wales with Pembroke in the title - just in case. Nothing in any of them.

[chrisharley9]

He is not buried in any of the local authority cemeteries in Pembroke as their burial records are on line. Will have to find out who holds the burial register for Pembroke Dock Military Cemetery

Chris

[Neil Clark]

I have an on-going interest in the sinking of the H.M.H.S. "Glenart Castle" (Southampton. An Ashford lad died on it -

Chaplain 4th Class The Reverend Frank Harrison EDINGER. Army Chaplains Department. Hospital Ship SS GLENART CASTLE. Died Tuesday 26th February 1918 aged 33 years. Former Curate of St Mary’s Church, Ashford, Kent. Resided 4 Church Road, Ashford, Kent. Son of Reverend Philip and Emily Edinger of 4 Church Road, Ashford, Kent. Husband of Maude Mary Edinger of (1923) 4 Church Road, Ashford, Kent. Frank has no known grave. His name appears on the Hollybrook Memorial, Southampton, Hampshire.

Frank’s father was the former Vicar of Mersham.

Glenart Castle is located in County Wicklow in Ireland just outside the town of Arklow.

SS Galician a 6576 ton Union Steam Ship Co Ltd vessel SS Galician was renamed Glenart Castle in September 1914 and put to use as a Hospital Ship. She had left Newport, South Wales on the day before being torpedoed at 0347 hours by the German Submarine UC56. The torpedo struck the ships engine room and she sank stern first in about seven minutes. Of the 206 crew, medical staff and chaplains onboard only 38 survived the atrocity. It was widely reported that the ships Master 55 year old Lt-Cdr Bernard Burt RNR (Retd) from Crowborough, Sussex could have saved himself but went down with his ship. Although painted white with several Red Cross’s prominently displayed and fully lit including a prominent green band painted all around the ship indicating her status, Wilhelm Kiesewetter the German submarine commander who sank her totally ignored all rules of war and engagement. The Glenart Castle was off Lundy in the Bristol Channel heading for Brest to pick up wounded troops. A graphic account of the atrocity was reported in several publications mainly from the few survivors statements which naturally had slight variations regarding exact details of the disaster, including those published in The Times newspaper on Thursday February 28 1918. This report drew attention to seven other Hospital Ship sinkings by U-boats over the previous twelve months. It mentioned that the Glenart Castle had encountered the enemies attention on previous occasions. On 15 August 1914 it encountered and was stopped and by the German merchant cruiser “Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse” but was spared by the enemy Captain on account of the women and children onboard. Again on 1 March 1917 the ship was carrying wounded men when it either struck a mine or was torpedoed in the English Channel. On that occasion the Glenart Castle managed to reach port safley.

At Hartland Point on the north Devon coast on 26 February 2002 a memorial to commemorate the loss of HS Glenart Castle was unveiled which is inscribed:

IN PROUD AND GRATEFUL MEMORY OF THOSE WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES IN THE HOSPITAL SHIP GLENART CASTLE

Please Remember

Master Lt Cdr Burt, Matron Katy Beaufoy, the ships officers, crew and medical staff who died when the ship was torpedoed by the UC56 in the early hours of the 26th February 1918.

The Ship lies 20 miles WNW from this stone.

FOR THOSE IN PERIL ON THE SEA.

RIP.

The Matron referred to was a member of Queen Alexandria’s Imperial Military Nursing Service who was veteran of the Boer War. Matron Katy Beaufoy had already miraculously survived another hospital ship attack. She had been onboard the H.S Dover Castle due to illness when it was torpedoed and sunk by Uboat - UB-67 on 26 May 1917 off the coast of Bona, Algeria. Katy Beaufoy is commemorated on the same memorial as the Rev Frank Edinger as is the Field Marshall Lord Kitchener.

[chrisharley9]

Neil

thanks very much for the added detail

Chris

[Verrico2009]

Hope this link works: The New York Times Current History. Just something I hadn't come across before.

[NeilEvans]

That is an excellent find.

Neil

[NeilEvans]

Can anyone find a death entry for J.T White? Forum pal Steve John has him listed as John T. White

http://www.pembrokeshire-war-memorial.co.uk/page55.htm

Name: WHITE

Initials: J T

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Conductor

Regiment/Service: Royal Army Ordnance Corps

Date of Death: 11/11/1920

Service No: 7574054

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: E. 161.

Cemetery: PEMBROKE DOCK MILITARY CEMETERY

Probably just a coincidence but worth checking, could there have been 2 J. Whites buried there? Has anyone check the burial register for the Military Cemetery?

Neil

[NeilEvans]

Just searched some Cemetery records.

http://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk/content.asp?id=7224&f=s&sys=l&From=&To=&Surname=boycott&Forename=

It would appear the Military Cemetery burials are not included, and a few burial from Llanion are not showing up on the search.

Having visited the Military Cemetery last month it wouldn't surprise me if there are numerous unmarked graves.

Neil

[Bardess]

The very last sentence is a bit worrying "The survivors were landed in Wales". Where did Jesse go?

[Andy Wade]

The very last sentence is a bit worrying "The survivors were landed in Wales". Where did Jesse go?

I thought that too, but taking the word quite literally, he was a survivor of the sinking, but he ended up as a casualty of the rescue. He could still have been landed, which is still what is written on the reports - although the numbers were incorrect and had to be confirmed by naval message.

I think it's odd that no mention has been made of any burial at sea, never mind a burial on land. No mention at all. When you look at his disappearance, it's odd that we even know his name because it's as if he vanished without trace on arrival at Pembroke Dock. And we can't even be 100% sure that happened anyway.

As Chris Harley has said, we need burial records for Pembroke Dock Military Cemetery... and I reckon Pembroke Dock Llanion Cemetery too, because he might be in either one as an unmarked grave.

[Bardess]

I'm not so sure Andy as it says he died on board. I took it to mean those that were still alive

[Verrico2009]

I didn't take it as anything more than a general account, focusing on the attempted rescue of Jesse. In fact, I think there's an inaccuracy in that (from memory) Jesse was not the first man to be rescued by the Parker.

I don't think this account can be relied on as more accurate than the report of the Parker supplied at the time and the confirmation that they had picked up 9 people, one of whom died during the course of the rescue, and accordingly landed 8 survivors (of whom Harry Lund was to die the next day) and one dead body: no body other than Jesse's is mentioned.

[Edited to add: for those not closely following the Harry Lund thread, these are links to the papers I retrieved at Kew: http://flickr.com/gp/louiq/0S10jD and http://flickr.com/gp/louiq/T4c3o7: I'm aware that there's a page missing from the latter which I do now have but am not rushing to load as it deals with the sinking not the rescue and Forum member Myrtle has drawn my attention to the fact that the page number stamps in the former are inconsistent and although I'm convinced I copied everything available I have it on my list for my next Kew visit, probably in the New Year]

[Andy Wade]

I'm not so sure Andy as it says he died on board. I took it to mean those that were still alive

Myrtle's unsubstantiated proposal has had rather a good run hasn't it...

We have two possible scenarios here. Let's ignore Harry Lund shall we, because we know what happened to him.

Scenario 1 - Nine men were picked up by the USS Parker. One was Jesse White and he was

badly injured in the propellors and died on board the USS Parker. All nine were landed and Jesse was buried on land, but the burial record has not been picked up by CWGC. Jesse White is named on the Tower Hill Memorial.

Scenario 2 - Ten men were picked up by the USS Parker. One was Jesse White and he was badly injured in the propellors and died on board the USS Parker, then buried at sea but no record was made of this rather moving ceremony. A different man's body was then landed at Pembroke Dock instead of also being buried at sea, but we don't know who that was. Jesse White is named on the Tower Hill Memorial.

Let's be clear here, the only reason 10 men is even being postulated is that one message was a bit ambiguous. A clarification was asked for and a Naval Signal was received to clear this up.

I think there were 9 men in total picked up by USS Parker. One of these men was Jesse White. He was landed as a body and buried on land and the paperwork was messed up. We don't know where he was buried. Until some concrete evidence to suggest there was a tenth man is brought forward, I've going to believe that Jesse White was buried on land and lost. We have nine names on a list of survivors picked up by the USS Parker. There's no mystery tenth man landed as a body at Pembroke Dock.

[Myrtle]

Myrtle's unsubstantiated proposal has had rather a good run hasn't it...

My observation was based on the fact that Jesse White is commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial. As this is a memorial for those Merchant Seamen who do not have a known grave and that a number of them were lost or buried at sea, it would be good to clarify if Jesse White was buried at sea by the crew of the Parker. Interestingly, it seems that the US Navy have been known to land bodies and then take them back out to sea for burial but as, in this case, the sailor was English I don't believe that this would have happened.

Anyway, I have sent out a couple of emails to see if I can locate the Parker's log.

Myrtle

[Andy Wade]

My observation was based on the fact that Jesse White is commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial. As this is a memorial for those Merchant Seamen who do not have a known grave and that a number of them were lost or buried at sea, it would be good to clarify if Jesse White was buried at sea by the crew of the Parker. Interestingly, it seems that the US Navy have been known to land bodies and then take them back out to sea for burial but as, in this case, the sailor was English I don't believe that this would have happened.

Anyway, I have sent out a couple of emails to see if I can locate the Parker's log.

Myrtle

Thanks Myrtle, that would be great if you can manage to find the ships logs.

I've been racking my brains to remember where I'd seen a specific reference to Jesse White being taken ashore and I have found what I'm looking for.

Here is one of Louise's pictures from the Glenart Castle inquiry. (hope you don't mind me cropping it to show this point Louise?):

As you can see it clearly says the Hospital has received only eight survivors and one dead.

They've asked for confirmation on the numbers stated and I'll show the reply from the USS Parker confirming eight survivors and one dead below, but I think it's pretty clear that Jesse White's body was taken to the hospital.

So where is he buried?

Here's the USS Parker's reply confirming eight men and one dead body:

[Verrico2009]

(hope you don't mind me cropping it to show this point Louise?)

Of course not, Andy - that's why I put them up for fellow members to view, so that it can all be followed.

I do see your point, Myrtle and of course it'll be interesting to know if you can get anything from the Parker's logs, but as you're aware I agree with Andy that Jesse's body was brought ashore and I think it's what happened to it after that we need to look into (though I note your point about bodies being known to have been taken out to sea again, but I would have expected them to leave it with the UK authorities to notify his family and bring him home).

Back on the Harry Lund thread (no, he won't go away Andy! ) Phil Evans has kindly provided a date for the unveiling of the Tower Hill Memorial as 12th December 1928, over 10 years after Jesse's death (though obviously long in the planning). Am I right in thinking the CWGC (or, rather, its predecessor) turned its attention to this sort of thing in the early 1920s? I can only think either (1) Jesse was quickly buried near the hospital (possibly owing to the nature of his injuries in view of any distress it might cause/any questions the family might have asked - though the New York Times makes express mention of the incident) and his family somehow never knew where he was buried or (2) he was recovered by his family and has a private grave but they didn't realise it was for those with "no known" graves and believed it was a simple memorial to everyone who'd lost their lives in the tragedy, It seems they've willingly provided exactly the sort of information you'd expect to see on a fully completed NoK form.