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trenchtrotter

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Peter Doyle

Going with the Backwards Sam Browne thing.

Here is a squad of what I take to be MPs wearing the Sam Browne backwards (presumably to support cuffs or a truncheon or...) The officer in the center has his on in the conventional fashion.

Interesting, that. I notice the small ammunition pouch at the termination of the cross-strap with the belt, so presume they also have pistols? This might back up the 'MP' (regimental Police?) idea. Difficult to see. I wonder if anyone else has views on this?

Peter

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Andrew Upton

... I notice the small ammunition pouch at the termination of the cross-strap with the belt, so presume they also have pistols? This might back up the 'MP' (regimental Police?) idea. Difficult to see. I wonder if anyone else has views on this?

Except the one chap standing far right who has his on the other side :innocent:

Pistol would be logical, but they're all cunningly positioned so that it's not possible to see them if they have them!

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robins2

Soldier from CEF. Don't know the Battalion. Note the rifle doesn't look like an Lee Enfield.

scan00111.jpg?w=576&h=912

rifle probably the infamous Ross rifle issued but soon discarded at the front in favor of the more reliable enfield

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robins2

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trenchtrotter

Posted on behalf of another. Excellent studies of soldiers from 8th Royal Scots, pioneers to the 51st Highland Div from Aug 1915. Note crossed rifle and pick collars. The sgt is GS Souness KIA 22/3/1918 during great german Spring Offensive. Truely emotive images.

And individually.....

post-15846-081139300 1286301513.jpg

post-15846-089619100 1286301596.jpg

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MBrockway

I've just started putting mine here:

Soldier Photos

Here's nice one of Mr Welby of the Artists Rifles:

Welby-front.jpg

WELBY, DAVIS

Second Lieutenant, Royal Garrison Artillery

Age: 43. Date of Death: 23/10/1918.

Husband of Edith Welby, of 3, Park Parade, Harrogate.

HARROGATE (HARLOW HILL) CEMETERY, H. 69.

Andy,

According to the Artist's Rifles Roll of Honour, he was 760683 Welby and gazetted into the RGA on 01 Jul 1917.

Cheers,

Mark

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Andy Wade

Andy,

According to the Artist's Rifles Roll of Honour, he was 760683 Welby and gazetted into the RGA on 01 Jul 1917.

Cheers,

Mark

Thank you Mark!

I've added that information to his page on the wiki here: http://soldierphotos.wikispaces.com/Welby

:thumbsup:

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MBrockway

Thank you Mark!

I've added that information to his page on the wiki here: http://soldierphotos...paces.com/Welby

:thumbsup:

Andy,

You have a Service Number for him on the reverse of the card of 4539.

This would be his original Artists' Rifles SN before the TF renumbering begun on 01 Mar 1917 when he was issued the new number of 760683 used in the Artists' Rifles Roll of Honour..

This also shows us that he was already enlisted in the Artists' Rifles on 01 Mar 1917.

According to Paul Nixon's Army Service Number website, the SN 4539 would indicate an enlistment into the Artists' Rifles between July and October 1915, with September 1915 being the most likely.

HTH

Cheers,

Mark

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Andy Wade

Many thanks for this Mark. I've edited a condensed version of your posts on the web page accompanying Davis Welby's picture. I think I have it right and have credited you with supplying the information. I hope this is OK.

Cheers,

Andy.

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Muerrisch

Eastbourne Coll OTC

NB the use of the VF "efficiency" diamond on the cuffs.

post-894-047820400 1286724906.jpg

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4thGordons

post-55705-025011000 1286245608.jpgpost-55705-025011000 1286245608.jpg

Wrong sort of Ross! This is the 1905 with Harris magazine and leaf sight. The chap in the picture is holding an M1910 (MkIII) with a receiver sight.

Here is the MkIII

post-14525-015818300 1286726187.jpg

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trenchtrotter

Thankyou for ther info re rifles 4th Gordons. Thanks for all posters so far. However can I make a polite request to keep this on postcards, uniforms and insignia with mild diversions.

Many thanks to all contributors thus far. I have some gems to follow re soldiers, insignia and details.

TT

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4thGordons

Will delete rifle image if you wish - just let me know.

In the mean time: Count the wound stripes!

post-14525-004831800 1286744089.jpg

And an anonymous ASC man with 03 belt and pouches and a simplified pattern jacket (with leather "football" buttons)and a nice view of the top of the hat!

post-14525-094261800 1286744297.jpg

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4thGordons

Northamptonshire Rgt. In KD jacket but with wool cap. Unknown (yellow?) triangular formation sign.

post-14525-088815500 1286745665.jpg

Chris

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trenchtrotter

Superb images and thanks...no need to remove any images.

Thanks

TT

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tocemma

Interesting, that. I notice the small ammunition pouch at the termination of the cross-strap with the belt, so presume they also have pistols? This might back up the 'MP' (regimental Police?) idea. Difficult to see. I wonder if anyone else has views on this?

Peter

Below a slightly clearer view of the strap. I have a kit listing showing Strap, Supporting, Pistol. for MPs. This chap is mounted. No armlet or shoulder titles visible, but the red cap cover can be seen. The ammunition case is on his left hip in this instance. The holster seems to be for a 4" barrel MkIV or MkV Webley pistol. Note the whistle chain and the dandy way it's being worn, most MPs seem to have been a bit more discreet! I believe post-war a pistol case with an integral strap was sealed. (or of course it could LoCs catching up as they often lagged way behind)

Tocemma

post-7141-075129300 1286752789.jpg

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Andy Wade

Northamptonshire Rgt. In KD jacket but with wool cap. Unknown (yellow?) triangular formation sign.

Chris

That 'triangular' formation sign. Is it possible it's actually a square divided diagonally, with half light colour and half dark? Maybe it's the cloth of the arm in shadow, but at the other side of the 'triangle' it looks much darker than the rest of the uniform.

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tocemma

Just spent the last hour looking at the Gardin/Zanardi photos on the Independent website which was mentioned in an earlier post. Very interesting. I'm sure Dominic Zanardi won't mind me posting this image here. What is the badge on his sleeve? Not a very high res image unfortunately, but I can't make it out. It seems to be in GM, and his cap badge seems to be AOC. Any ideas? Wheelwright perhaps? Looks a bit odd somehow.

It is worth having a look at the photos though. Although there is some repetition, there are some nice details to be seen. Oilskin clothing, Macintosh Capes, 1888 pattern belts worn by RAMC men, LOTS of cut down Winter SD Caps, quite a few geometric cloth unit signs in evidence and many men without shoulder titles. It's also nice to see some of the local Somme people and how familiar the faces look. Some nice images of HLI men in khaki Balmoral bonnets too.

Tocemma

post-7141-032482000 1286756109.jpg

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tocemma

PS This chap's shirt is something. Note the two wristwatches. The dark tie and tie pin, and the spectacular haircut. His colleagues shirt is also interesting. Note the small single chest pocket. Fascinating stuff.

Probably Officers but who knows.....looks like the chap on the right has issue braces on.

Tocemma

post-7141-014172000 1286757930.jpg

post-7141-082363000 1286757945.jpg

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4thGordons

That 'triangular' formation sign. Is it possible it's actually a square divided diagonally, with half light colour and half dark? Maybe it's the cloth of the arm in shadow, but at the other side of the 'triangle' it looks much darker than the rest of the uniform.

Andy

I don't think so - although looking again I think it IS possible that it is a triangle divided in half with a darker colour behind.

I am pretty sure the front edge runs back towards the middle of his arm rather than running straight as a square would.

This is about as good as I can get on the area from my scan. I could dig it out and rescan if it would be helpful.

post-14525-041140300 1286760110.jpg

Chris

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Andy Wade

Thanks for that Chris, it's one of those borderline (did you see what I did there) things where the photo just doesn't quite show enough of the patch.

Didn't Grumpy run a thread earlier this year with pictures of all the battle patches? Must try to find it...

Edited to add:

It's a thread by Chris Foster of CPGW that I was thinking about. Here it is and in particular a picture of officers patches posted by Rolfi, note the top left one:

18_div_patches.jpg

Edited by Andy Wade

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robins2
post='1485315']

Wrong sort of Ross! This is the 1905 with Harris magazine and leaf sight. The chap in the picture is holding an M1910 (MkIII) with a receiver sight.

Here is the MkIII

post-14525-015818300 1286726187.jpg

thanks for the correction

\Bob R.

post-55705-058849200 1286782578.jpg

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trenchtrotter

13th Middlesex. One can just see battle patch on arm.....

post-15846-099573200 1286795010.jpg

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