Postcards

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

Sorry not to have commented before - I only visit this thread occasionally. "Tilshead" suggests West Down North or South Camp on Salisbury Plain (some distance from the current Westdown Camp). Both camping-sites were much used during the summer months, mostly by infantry - Volunteer Battalions and Territorials. The sender had been apparently based at the Curragh, suggesting he was a Regular. I don't think that the photograph was taken at West Down (I have only one probably showing civilians there); somehow the men (apart from the young one,centre, back) don't strike me as military and they appear to have been at a formal occasion, such as a wedding.

Simply posted there I think.  The image itself seems nothing to do with the camp.  Apart from anything else regular soldiers had to seek special permission from their officer commanding to wear civilian clothes.

Edited 14 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Michelle Young]

Apologies if these are out of sync. Had to split a lot of posts into a new thread and these got mixed up with them. I have no idea where they stand in this thread. 

[Moonraker]

Not to worry, Michelle. I've long had my reservations about this thread and how cumbersome it's begun and felt that individual postcards could be posted in the other sub-forums. Though a keen collector of "military Wiltshire" cards and with a lesser interest in those neighbouring counties, I'm not bothered about others, so visit the thread only occasionally - then I spot an old post that does interest me and interrupt a later sequence of posts! I don't think I've ever posted an image here.

[themonsstar]

Old picture I pick up the other day in Dunkeld. The local unit to this area is the Scottish horse. On the back is the date 28th June 1891

Edited 17 August , 2022 by themonsstar

[themonsstar]

A soldier of the Scottish horse, on the back is the date 8th April 1916. The photographers name looks like Neil Powell's, Marefair, Northampton.

[FROGSMILE]

A super photo that shows the regiment’s special service dress jacket especially well.  Thank you for posting it.

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[themonsstar]

There are 3 soldiers on this postcard two SNCOs and one WO1, the WO1 looks like he is serving in the RAMC

[FROGSMILE]

57 minutes ago, themonsstar said:

Old picture I pick up the other day in Dunkeld. The local unit to this area is the Scottish horse. On the back is the date 28th June 1891

A very fine photo of the highly popular ‘stable jacket’ worn by cavalry until gradually replaced by the frock or jumper around the turn of the century (from 1898 on).

The Scottish Horse wasn’t raised until 1900 so your photo must show a different unit.

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[themonsstar]

Other then they're being too to office in uniform I cannot find any rank on the officer that looks like he's getting married.

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, themonsstar said:

There are 3 soldiers on this postcard two SNCOs and one WO1, the WO1 looks like he is serving in the RAMC

Yes definitely a RAMC WO given the Red Cross badge.  Unfortunately I can’t make out the unit of the groom.  Is it a trick of light and shadow, or can I see coloured tabs (gorgets) on his collar tips?

2 minutes ago, themonsstar said:

Other then they're being too to office in uniform I cannot find any rank on the officer that looks like he's getting married.

He’s dressed in a typical officer cadet’s uniform prior to commissioning.  No insignia or Sam Browne, but a plain leather belt with brass frame buckle. 

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[GWF1967]

On 14/08/2022 at 15:21, Moonraker said:

Sorry not to have commented before - I only visit this thread occasionally. "Tilshead" suggests West Down North or South Camp on Salisbury Plain (some distance from the current Westdown Camp). Both camping-sites were much used during the summer months, mostly by infantry - Volunteer Battalions and Territorials. The sender had been apparently based at the Curragh, suggesting he was a Regular. I don't think that the photograph was taken at West Down (I have only one probably showing civilians there); somehow the men (apart from the young one,centre, back) don't strike me as military and they appear to have been at a formal occasion, such as a wedding.

Many thanks. 

[Bob Davies]

8 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes definitely a RAMC WO given the Red Cross badge.  Unfortunately I can’t make out the unit of the groom.  Is it a trick of light and shadow, or can I see coloured tabs (gorgets) on his collar tips?

Both the groom, a Sergeant and the Staff Sgt to the left of him look to be wearing Slade Wallace belts. Any ideas?

[FROGSMILE]

44 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

Both the groom, a Sergeant and the Staff Sgt to the left of him look to be wearing Slade Wallace belts. Any ideas?

Yes they are the 1903 pattern in brown leather.  I did consider them, but there are no other clues.  The absence of Red Cross badges shows that they are not RAMC.  The 1903 SW belt was worn by service support corps and departments, but which one is unclear without other corroborating evidence. My best guess is AOC.  The staff sergeant has a sword in accordance with his status.

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes they are the 1902 pattern in brown leather.  I did consider them, but there are no other clues.  The absence of Red Cross badges shows that they are not RAMC.  The belt was worn by service support corps and departments, but which one is unclear without other corroborating evidence. 

Thank you FROGSMILE, my thoughts were that they were wearing them as they are a bit flashier than say a snake buckled belt (patt 1914 or even seen on Boer war soldiers), or earlier war as that was all that was available, however I think that would apply to new recruits early in the war. Cast your eyes to the left arm of the Staff Sgt about belt level, some vertical line of stripes very narrow?

[FROGSMILE]

31 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

Thank you FROGSMILE, my thoughts were that they were wearing them as they are a bit flashier than say a snake buckled belt (patt 1914 or even seen on Boer war soldiers), or earlier war as that was all that was available, however I think that would apply to new recruits early in the war. Cast your eyes to the left arm of the Staff Sgt about belt level, some vertical line of stripes very narrow?

I believe the photo is prewar.  The 1903 SW belt was issued to SNCOs in the corps I mentioned, and worn at the time that it was introduced with sword and/or pistol holster and cartridge pouch (e.g. to Armourer sergeants, as just one example).  He (the SSgt) is wearing a sword with a wire bound grip and that is what (I’m assuming) you can see as the ‘lines’ immediately to his side (right as we look). 

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I believe the photo is prewar.  The belt was issued to SNCOs in the units I mentioned, and worn at the time it was introduced with sword and/or pistol holster and cartridge pouch (e.g. to Armourer sergeants as just one example).  He (the SSgt) is wearing a sword with a wire bound grip and that is what (I’m assuming) you can see as the ‘lines’ immediately to his side (right as we look). 

That will be it, I was thinking 'the lines look like a sword grip but why the hell is a SSgt wearing a sword?' Edit I/you can see the hand guard of the sword, now I look with your information. Cheers!

Edited 17 August , 2022 by Bob Davies

[FROGSMILE]

15 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

That will be it, I was thinking 'the lines look like a sword grip but why the hell is a SSgt wearing a sword?' Edit I/you can see the hand guard of the sword, now I look with your information. Cheers!

All ‘staff sergeants’ had originally been equipped with swords Bob.  Bear in mind that as a grouping of the most senior of SNCOs, SSgts preceded warrant officers (WOs), but became so large that it was felt there was insufficient delineation.  First the top level was creamed off to create the original WOs, then in 1915 another layer was sliced off to create WOII.  The remainder still wore swords.  Subsequently (the present day) that has been confined to just WOII and WOI in the Foot Guards, and WOI only in other corps, with WOII wearing just the belt and two slings as a reminder, a vestige if you like, of that old distinction.

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

11 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

All ‘staff sergeants’ had originally been equipped with swords Bob.  Bear in mind that as a grouping of the most senior of SNCOs, SSgts preceded warrant officers (WOs), but became so large that it was felt there was insufficient delineation.  First the top level was creamed off to create the original WOs, then in 1915 another layer was sliced off to create WOII.  The remainder still wore swords.  Subsequently (the present day) that has been confined to just WOII and WOI in the Foot Guards, and WOI only in other corps, with WOII wearing just the belt and two slings as a reminder, a vestige if you like, of that old distinction.

Thank you for explaining this FROGSMILE, from another post way back I had read this, possibly from your good self. Though not about the swords, don't quote or bet any rum on this Bob ;-) A great army tradition.  'How come he has the belt and slings but no sword?'  

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

'How come he has the belt and slings but no sword?'  

Expense, or parsimony….depending upon your point of view!  Basically the Foot Guards are the only ones left who still do it the way the whole army used to.

Edited 17 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

33 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Expense, or parsimony….depending upon your point of view!  Basically the Foot Guards are the only ones who still do it the way the whole army used to.

They should continue to do so and keep the tradition, one of the values which makes them proud of their Regiments! edit to add a comer. and more..

 whatever will inspire the men to fight as one, tradition or comradeship?

Edited 17 August , 2022 by Bob Davies

[MikeyH]

This image has been cut from a postcard featuring a group of soldiers.  The photo was taken by W.Willis, Portland Studios, 250 High Road, S.Tottenham.  The cap badge seems quite distinctive, but I have been unable to identify it.  A partial dedication on the back reads:-  Yours Bo, The R.

Mike.

 

[FROGSMILE]

Middlesex Regiment.  You can also read the woven thread off-white shoulder title issued from summer 1916 onward.

Edited 21 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[MikeyH]

Thanks Frogsmile,

I couldn't make out the shoulder title.  The photo was found at an antiques fair. it cost the princely sum of £1 as it was only part of a postcard!

Mike.

 

[FROGSMILE]

21 hours ago, MikeyH said:

Thanks Frogsmile,

I couldn't make out the shoulder title.  The photo was found at an antiques fair. it cost the princely sum of £1 as it was only part of a postcard!

Mike.

 

If you’re going to continue collecting postcards from WW1, then I recommend that you invest in a thread counter.  When I first bought mine they were relatively expensive (if European made), but they’re now mass produced in China and if you shop around you can find a great range of prices.  Perhaps start with a plastic one if you don’t want to pay much, but the aluminium type are better (mine made in Japan and 40-years ago cost £3.40).  There are a range of magnifications, the type once popular with stamp collectors works well.  The folding aspect provides the optimum focal length and sits conveniently on the photo while you move your head. 

Edited 22 August , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[MikeyH]

18 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

If you’re going to continue collecting postcards from WW1, then I recommend that you invest in a thread counter.  When I first bought mine they were relatively expensive (if European made), but they’re now mass produced in China and if you shop around you can find a great range of prices.  Perhaps start with a plastic one if you don’t want to pay much, but the aluminium type are better (mine made in Japan and 40-years ago cost £3.40).  There are a range of magnifications, the type once used by stamp collectors works well.  The folding aspect provides the optimum focal length. 

Thanks Frogsmile,

I normally use a loupe, though currently missing in action.  I see many WW1 postcards at various antique events.  Average pricing from £3 upwards, sometimes as much as £8 or £10.  Too much for me I am afraid.  But always on the lookout out for the odd bargain!

Mike.

Edited 22 August , 2022 by MikeyH